REPORT 
OF THE 
Committee on Public Health 
RELATIVE TO 
LUNATIC ASYLUMS. 
TRANSMITTED TO THE LEGISLATURE MAY 22, 187 9. 
ALBANY: 
CHARLES VAN BENTHUYSEN & SONS. 
1879. STATE OF NEWYORK. 
No. 64. 
IN SENATE, 
May 22, 1879 
REPORT 
OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH RELATIVE TO 
LUNATIC ASYLUMS. 
The committee have had before them, for their consideration, the 
petition referred to them on the 20th of March, purporting to be a peti- 
tion of two hundred and twenty-one “ physicians, lawyers, and other 
citizens of the State of New York,” asking for the appointment of a 
committee for the examination into the management of all institutions 
for the care of the insane in the State of New York. The petition 
consists of five pages of printed matter, to which is attached eleven 
separate pieces of paper pasted together, and containing two hundred 
and twenty-one names. The petition was given a wide notoriety before 
its transmission to the Legislature, by being published in the New York 
Herald, with an editorial, naming certain persons as signers and sup- 
porters. Among the names mentioned were those of F. A. P. Barnard, 
President of Columbia College, and Dr. Jno. W. Draper, of the University 
of New York. These gentlemen immediately addressed a note to the 
Hon. Hamilton Fish, Jr.,* member of the Legislature, stating that if 
their names were on such a petition they requested them withdrawn 
therefrom. Subsequently the committee received letters from a number 
of persons, requesting their names withdrawn from the petition. No 
applications to be heard being made, in view of the character of the peti- 
tion and these facts, the committee resolved to make some inquiry, and, 
with that view, addressed a letter to each of the physicians on the peti- 
tion, and to other prominent persons on the petition, appointing the 6th 
and Bth of May for the purpose of hearing their statements. They also 
notified the superintendents of all the State lunatic asylums, viz., Wil- 
lard, Utica, Auburn, Middletown, Poughkeepsie, and those of Blooming- 
dale, and Ward’s Island, and also the State Commissioner in Lunacy, of 
this hearing, and requested them to be present to answer any allegations. 
Of the fourteen physicians, one minister, one lawyer, one banker, two 
brokers, one sculptor, one publisher, and three gentlemen of leisure, all 
* See letter with report, page 60. [Senate, 
petitioners, whom the committee invited to be present on the sixth, two 
physicians wrote, withdrawing1 their names; the one asserting that he 
had signed under misapprehension ; the other, that he had signed “ no 
petition containing allegations of mal-administration either on the part 
of superintendents of lunatic asylums or the Commissioner of Lunacy, 
and knew of no facts that would sustain such allegations.” Seven 
wrote that they had no personal knowledge of the asylums, or their 
management, or of the manner in which the Commissioner in Lunacy 
discharged his duties, and declined to appear before the committee. 
Four made no response to the letter of the committee. The minister 
stated that he had “ no charges of any kind to make against the asy- 
lums ; that he had no personal knowledge, and that he had signed 
under the representations of another.” One broker, publisher, and 
attorney had no personal knowledge, and declined to appear. The 
others made no response. All the superintendents of the State asylums, 
and Dr. Chas. H. Nichols, of the Bloomingdale Asylum, Dr. A. E. 
Macdonald, of Ward’s Island City Asylum, Dr. John Ordronaux, State 
Commissioner in Lunacy, Hon. Samuel Campbell, President of the Board 
of Managers of the Utica Asylum, and Hon. S. G. Hadley, President 
of the Board of Managers of Willard Asylum, were present, and severally 
made statements denying all the allegations of the petitioners, and 
stating that they were ready to answer or meet any statements these 
petitioners might attempt to substantiate; and that while they did 
not propose to offer any defense to mere assertions, they were also 
ready to waive all technicalities, and answer any questions the com- 
mittee might propose bearing upon the general management and conduct 
of the various asylums. The committee then examined them at length. 
Of the fifteen physicians, petitioners, whom the committee requested to 
appear before them on the eighth, three declined by letter to come before 
them ; one requested his name withdrawn, as he had signed under mis- 
representations ; seven made no response; and four, namely, William 
A. Hammond, William J. Morton, E. C. Spitzka, and James G. Kiernan, 
wrote, saying they would appear. Drs. Hammond and Morton did ap- 
pear, and the former said that he had seen the other two that morning, 
who said they would also come. The committee held the inquiry open 
the following day, but no others appeared. All the superintendents of 
asylums, and others mentioned as present on the sixth, were also there 
on the eighth, and some further statements were made. The committee 
subsequently receiving letters from Drs. Spitzka and Kiernan, still pro- 
posing to appear, the committee appointed the fifteenth for the hearing, 
when they were present and made their statements. These statements, 
together with those of Dr. Hammond and Dr. Morton, the statements 
of superintendents, and Commissioner in Lunacy, together with a letter 
of Professor Jno. C. Dalton, of New York, and a letter of Rev. AVilliam 
T. Gibson, D. D.,* form a part of, and are appended to this report, have 
been carefully considered by the committee. 
From the statements of Drs. Hammond, Morton, Spitzka, and Kiernan, 
this petition had its origin in what they denominated the Neurological 
Society, of which Dr. Spitzka claimed that they were, with Dr. Seguin 
and Dr. Mcßride, the leading members, in getting up and circulating 
this petition. 
Dr. Hammond pointed out to the committee the first thirteen signers, 
including himself, as having been procured by him. Two of this num- 
* Page 48. No. 64.] 
3 
ber have written, one saying that he “ cannot be a party to such charges 
as they are entirely without his knowelege and belief;” the other, that 
he “ signed the paper without reading it, and under a misapprehension as 
to its precise character.” The next eleven signatures he said were secured 
by Dr. E. C. Seguin, one of these names being that of President Bar- 
nard, of Columbia College, to whom we have already alluded. Another 
wrote he had not signed such a petition. The committee had addressed 
an invitation to all these; and six, with Dr. Seguin, declined to appear, 
having no personal knowledge ; three made no response to the invitation 
of the committee. Dr. Spitzka claimed to hove secured the next seven 
names To the invitation of the committee, three of these declined to 
appear, as they had no personal knowledge ; two made no response to 
the invitation; while Drs. Spitzka and Kiernan appeared. The next 
seventeen names Dr. Kiernan claimed to have secured. Five of these 
have written, requesting the withdrawal of their names, as they had 
signed under misrepresentations ; one that he had no personal knowl- 
edge, and had signed by request of another; another that he had no 
knowledge of the matters. Fifty-seven names were obtained in a single 
large mercantile establishment, the head of the establishment stating 
that the document which he had signed was of a different nature, and 
his name had been transferred to this petition without authorization. 
This gentleman, the head of the firm, stated to Dr, Macdonald that he 
had not signed any petition to the Legislature whatever; that he had 
signed a statement as to the character of one of his employes, saying 
that he had been seventeen years in his employ, and that any statement 
of his might be received as reliable ; and that all these names secured 
in his establishment were subscribed to the same statement and not to 
this petition, and that the names had been transferred to this petition. 
In another mercantile establishment, twenty-two signers were ob- 
tained, all of whom have written to the committee requesting them 
to erase their names from the petition, as they had signed under 
a miaapprehension of the facts and object sought for. Four wrote to the 
committee requesting the withdrawal of their names, as they had signed 
the petition under a misapprehension. Another requests the withdrawal 
of his name, saying that some months before he had signed a petition 
which he believed to favor a new street railway upon Broadway, but 
which he now believes was “ to be directed against the management of 
insane asylums of the State.” One requests his name withdrawn, as he 
had signed under a misapprehension. Another writes requesting the 
withdrawal of his name from the petition “ to which I think it was sur- 
reptitiously affixed, reflecting on parties in management of asylums,” 
etc. Another requests to withdraw because he believed the petition 
was changed from the one he had signed. 
Of these two hundred and twenty-one petitioners, one hundred and 
ninety-four are from the city of New York, nineteen from Brooklyn, six 
from the State at large, and two from New Jersey. Of the 1,365 physi- 
cians whose names are contained in the Medical Register of New York 
city, the petition contains but twenty-five. Three others are put down 
with M. D., whose names are not found on the Medical Register. From 
the physicians of Brooklyn, registered as four hundred and seventeen, 
the petition contains but one name. From the entire State of New 
York, outside of these two cities, not one phyoician has appended his 
signature. Two lawyers and one minister are on the petition. The 
occupations of the remaining signers are ; Professors two, importers one, 4 
[Senate, 
bankers and brokers eight, merchants seven, coal dealers one, sailmakers 
two, liquor dealers one, steward one, patent medicines one, dentist one, 
array officer one, conductor one, carpenter one, publisher one. hotel- 
keeper one, engineer one, stable-keeper one, grocer one, widow one, 
eating-house-keeper one, clerk one, dealer in buttons one, janitor one, 
policeman one, sculptor one, cutter one, paper-dealer one, plumber one, 
clerks and other employes in mercantile establishments, seventy-five, 
occupations not given, eight. 
From the letters received by the committee, it would appear that the 
majority of the names on this petition were procured under misappre- 
hension or misrepresentations. From these letters it is shown that 
ninety-four of the signatures obtained were through misapprehensions. 
The general assertions of the petition are not substantiated by any 
facts. They are merely allegations of mismanagement and defects, and 
incompetency of officers. Not one of the petitioners, medical or lay, so 
far as the committee are aware, has ever been inside of the State institu- 
tions for several years past, and only some half-dozen have ever been in 
any of the wrards of any of the asylums. Dr. Chapin, of the Willard 
Asylum, recognized the name of but one person on the petition who had 
ever visited that institution. Dr. Gray, of Utica, said that but two out 
of the whole number had ever visited the wards of that asylum, and 
neither of these for several years past. Dr. Cleveland, of Poughkeepsie, 
said that but four or five had ever visited that institution since its, open- 
ing, and these not for several years. Dr. Hammond had never visited 
the Willard Asylum, had been at Utica but twice, twelve and eight 
years ago, at Poughkeepsie but a few times, and at Blackwell’s Island 
before the incumbency of the present superintendent, and at Blooming- 
dale under a former superintendent. Dr. Morton had never visited any 
asylum except Ward’s Island a few times. Dr. Spitzka ha»d never been 
in any of the State institutions, and had no personal acquaintance of 
any of the officers, had never visited but one of the city asylums, and 
the same could be said of Dr. Kiernan. 
The value of a petition gotten up by persons so wholly ignorant of the 
institutions, signed by persons with no knowledge on the subject, it re- 
quires but little to estimate. 
In conclusion, the committee would say ; 
First. The petition is not substantiated in its allegations by any exist- 
ing state of facts. The Governor in his last message to the Legislature 
has spoken of the satisfactory condition of the State asylums from per- 
sonal visitation. 
Second. The Board of State Charities, an official visiting body, has 
never suggested any such defects or mal-administration of any kind in 
their annual reports to Legislature. A special committee of that 
board (President M. B. Anderson, of the Rochester University, and Mr. 
E, W. Foster), after examining the State asylums with reference to 
similar insinuations and allegations, reported on December 15, 1877, 
that “ the community is justified in having entire confidence in the 
administration of these institutions.” 
Third. It appears from the archives of the State Commissioner in 
Lunacy, as well as from his personal statement before the committee, 
that since the creation of this office, no formal complaints have at any 
time been made or filed with him against the management or internal 
administration of any State asylum, and his reports and personal state- 
ments before the committee show that no occasions calling for special No. 64.] 
5 
criticism upon such management or administration have up to this time 
presented themselves. 
Fourth. The insinuation of the petition that the superintendents of 
these State asylums are not thoroughly trained and thoroughly compe- 
tent medical men, is too notoriously untrue to require denial. 
Fifth. It is not true, as alleged in the petition, that undergraduates 
in medicine have been appointed as assistant physicians in State 
asylums. The charge is a reckless misrepresentation of these officers, 
and under examination the four persons appearing admitted this. From 
the statements of the superintendents of asylums, it appeared that in 
almost every instance assistants have received training in civil or mili- 
tary hospitals, and in other cases an equivalent in medical practice after 
graduation. Outside of the State asylums it appears that but one 
undergraduate is employed, and that he obtained his place by examina- 
tion as to qualifications by the authorized medical examining committee 
of the institution in which he is employed. 
/Sixth. In the judgment of the committee, there is no necessity for 
investigation or examination into the management of any of the State 
lunatic asylums. This petition sets forth nothing new or valuable, and 
all the persons signing it, as far as the committee have been able to 
ascertain, have no personal knowledge of these institutions, or of the 
allegations made in the petition, and many of them are so obviously and 
grossly untrue that they would seem to be the offspring either ’of ignor- 
ance or malice. In either case they are unworthy of notice. 
Seventh. The assertion that the pathological work done in the asylums 
is of little account, is sufficiently met by the following letter addressed 
to the committee by Professor John C. Dalton, of New York, who stands 
in the front rank of his profession as a representative of scientific 
research, and by the testimony of Dr. Bucknill: 
New York. April 3,1879. 
Hon. A. T. Goodwin : 
Dear Sir—Having- seen, in the daily papers, a statement derogatory to the 
character of the pathological investigations carried on in our lunatic asylums, and 
presumably directed against those in the laboratory of the New York State Asylum, 
under the direction of Dr. Jno. P. Gray, I would ask the privilege of saying a word 
to yon, as a member of the Senate committee on public health, in regard to that 
matter. The statement to which I refer reads as follows : 
“The little pathological work which has been done in our asylums, at enormous 
cost, has been of the most elementary sort, and has been ridiculed at home and 
abroad.” 
I have had some opportunity of seeing the pathological work done in the labora- 
tory of the New York State Lunatic Asylum of late years, and have been much im- 
pressed with the accuracy and pains-taking character of the methods employed and 
the great value of the results attained. There is no question in my mind that they 
reflect the highest credit upon the institution, both from a scientific and practical 
point of view. I believe it would be a disaster for the interests of the State and of 
humanity, if the work, now carried on in so judicious a manner, should receive any 
interruption. 
Yours, very truly, 
JNO. 0. DALTON, M. D. 
Dr. Bucknill, of England,an his notes on American Asylums (1878, p. 36), after his 
return to Europe, says : 
“The Lunatic Asylum for the State of New York, at Utica, which I visited after 
leaving Auburn, and where I spent some instructive and most agreeable days, is 
better known to the outside world than any other similar institution in the country. 
This, no doubt, is due, to some extent, to its being the asylum of the Empire State, 6 
[Senate, 
established in a part of the country long ago settled, and, in comparison to many 
other parts of the States, of almost ancient civilization. But to a far greater degree 
its reputation is due to the genius and enterprize of Dr. Jno. P. Gray, its well-known 
superintendent, who has for many years made it a brilliant school of psychology and 
of mental pathology. Dr. Gray, and his assistant physicians, edit the American 
Journal of Insanity, an enterprise which has been of the highest value in extending 
the knowledge of our science. One of his assistants. Dr. Theodore Deecke, devotes 
his time exclusively to pathological investigation, and is engaged at the present 
time in producing photographs of cerebral and spinal sections of wonderful size and 
accuracy. The positive and relative nature of drugs in the treatment of insanity is 
another subject which is systematically investigated at Utica, and altogether the 
utilization of the material for scientific inquiry which the institution affords, presents 
a remarkable similarity to the great school of mental science which has been founded 
in Yorkshire by Dr. Crichton Browne.” 
As Dr. Bucknill is an eminent authority on this whole subject, his 
judgment has practical value. 
This attack by medical men on the scientific work of a State institu- 
tion evinces an ignorance and a spirit of recklessness unworthy of a 
great liberal profession, and should be condemned by all who have the 
interests of science and humanity at heart. 
The assailment of public officers and the great charities of the State 
in such a reckless manner, the committee believe should be exposed, 
not simply because it is a wicked use of the sacred right of petition to 
the injury of individuals, but it also creates public distrust in the 
administration of State charities, and fills, with unnecessary pain, the 
hearts of those who are obliged to commit their loved ones to the care 
of these institutions, and further because it tends to degrade the 
dignity of the State. 
L. S. GOEBEL, 
ALEXANDER T. GOODWIN, 
Committee. 
Dated Albany, May 21, 1879 
Statements Taken Before the Committee on Public Health on Pe- 
tition About Asylums, May 6, 1879. 
The committee met on Tuesday the 6th, at half-past three p. m. 
There were present, besides the members of the committee (Senators 
Goebel and Goodwin), the following: Dr. John B. Chapin, of Willard 
Asylum ; Dr. John P. Gray, of Utica Asylum ; Dr. J. M. Cleaveland, of 
Hudson River Hospital; Dr. Carlos F. Mac Donald, of Auburn Criminal 
Insane Asylum; Dr. C. H. Nichols, of Bloomingdale Asylum; Dr. 
A. E. Macdonald of the City Asylum, Ward’s Island; Hon. Samuel 
Campbell, President Board of Managers Utica Asylum ; Hon. S. G. 
Hadley, President Board of Managers Willard Asylum. 
Chairman Goebel—We are here to-day in order to give hearing to 
certain petitioners who have made allegations in reference to the man- 
agement of the lunatic asylums of the State. Several of these petition- 
ers, some thirty or forty, have been invited to appear here and state 
what they know of the management, or control, of these institutions. 
If there are any persons here, who wish to appear, we are ready to hear 
them. 
I would ask, in behalf of the committee, if there are any of the peti- 
tioners present ? No. 64.J 
7 
No one rising, Senator Goodwin said : 
Gentlemen—My idea in regard to this petition is simply this : “ That 
this petition comes to ns signed by a large number of people, in which 
they make charges of mal-administration and malfeasance in office, and 
while none of the petitioners are here to-day, some of them will prob- 
ably appear on Thursday of this week. There are a number of superin- 
tendents of asylums present, and it is my private opinion that to obviate 
delay, and the trouble of going through the matter again on Thursday, 
that the gentlemen here might give what views they have upon this pe- 
tition, and to answer the allegations contained in it. I only make this 
suggestion. Of course, you know this is simply voluntary on the part of 
everybody. The committee is simply seeking for information upon 
which they can make a proper report to the Senate, and it is for you to 
say whether any or all of you shall be heard on the subject.” 
Mr. Campbell—l am one of the managers of the Utica Asylum. I un- 
derstand that a petition has been given to this committee with a view to 
investigation. I come to learn the nature of these complaints. When 
they are made, then is the time to answer. We cannot anticipate to-day 
what they are to say on Thursday, and for us to pre-judge in any way and 
to maintain our integrity in this matter is premature in my judgment. 
If this is adjourned until Thursday, the parties called must be here. I 
do not see how this can go on at the present moment. The people who 
have made these allegations are not here ; wisely so, I think. Perhaps 
they will not come on Thursday. Ido not think it is proper for us to 
state our innocence in this matter. It so looks to me. 
Senator Goodwin—Let me suggest one thing, Mr. Campbell. This 
petition was simply referred to this committee, not with a view of investi- 
gating into asylums, but simply to report what the judgment of this 
committee is to the Senate ; whether further action should be taken in 
the matter, or whether there is nothing of sufficient interest to demand 
the attention of the Senate. While I deem that it is better to hear the 
complaints of these petitioners, yet it is a very immaterial matter as to 
how this investigation is to be pursued. If it were a trial and investiga- 
tion, that would be a different thing, but the petition is not in the nature 
of a complaint. 
Mr. Campbell—Does it not state that there is malfeasance in office ? 
These petitioners should not make such a complaint unless there are 
grounds for so doing. It is for them to prove their charges, and then it 
is time enough for the others to speak when they are called upon. You 
might deny them all. I have read them, but don’t recollect much about 
them. It seemed to my mind that the petitioners assumed to have a 
certain amount of information. That information wants to come from 
them, not from us. 
Senator Goodwin—This is not a question of sides—not a question of 
trying a matter. It is simply a question of information to this committee 
in regard to asylums. It is not a question of defense or proof. Here 
are matters contained in this petition, and here are superintendents of 
asylums competent to testify in reference to them, and it strikes me that 
it is our duty to hear them to-day. 
Dr. Ordronaux—lt seems unnecessary to say at the outset that when 
a petition is presented to a law-making body, asking for relief, it 
should state some grievance for which there is no existing remedy, either 
under the common or statute law of the State. So long, therefore, 
as laws can be formed to redress alleged wrongs, there is no proper 8 
[Senate, 
ground upon which the Legislature can intervene. A petition has been 
sent here making statements of a general character and in the nature of 
allegations, and not upon the petitioners’ own knowledge, but merely 
upon rumor. It begins as follows : 
“ There has lately sprung up a general and marked discontent in the 
public mind,” etc. Rumor or general report may be used in evidence 
where the reputation of an individual is at stake, as for purposes of im- 
peachment. But the asylums of the State are not subjects of rumor. 
They are subjects which come within the prescribed limits of investiga- 
tion, and whenever these institutions make reports their reports are 
prima facie evidence of their workings. The State asylums are corpo- 
rations. They are organized by the State, placed under the manage- 
ment of boards of managers, having franchises given them for the pur- 
pose of acting in official capacities. These institutions are required to, 
and do make full reports to the Legislature. The county institutions 
are off-shoots of the county themselves. In 1878 the Legislature created 
the office of State Commissioner in Lunacy. He was vested with the 
power of a visitor at common lawr, and his duties are to see that the 
statutes regulating asylums are complied with. Now, in looking over 
the petition presented to this committee, I find not a single person 
among the signers who has ever to me personally, either directly or indi- 
rectly, by oral or written communications, alleged a single wrong against 
the managers of a State lunatic asylum in this State. While the officer 
has waited with his doors open, ready to give hearing to any one who 
desired to make complaints against the administration of our State asy- 
lums, no one has yet come. Certainly, if the air was filled with rumors 
some one would have come to make complaint, or reference to them. 
And the fact that no evidence in support of such charges has been pre- 
sented to the Commissioner, goes far to cast doubt upon the existence of 
any such evidence. The only asylum management which I have been 
called upon to investigate was that of the Kings County Asylum, at 
Flatbush, and a matter relating to a personal complaint against the ad- 
ministration of the Bloomingdale Asylum. 
If you examine the language of this petition, you will find that it is 
indefinite, diffuse, and repetitious. It begins with a statement which 
is matter of opinion only with the author of it, thus: 
“ There has lately sprung up a general and marked discontent in the 
public mind with regard to the management of our insane asylums. 
From the nature of the case, the internal mechanism of these institu- 
tions, being more or less secluded from public scrutiny, it was not to be 
expected that the popular feeling could point to any special fault in the 
system or its cause.” 
This is not only erroneous, but it is unjust to the asylum superintend- 
ents to speak of these institutions as secluded from public scrutiny. My 
report for the year 1876 gives the number of visitations by the public, 
and if you will also take notice of the number of officials, persons who 
are authorized to visit these institutions, you may see whether they are 
presumably competent to detect any errors in administration. First, we 
have the managers of these institutions. The boards of managers are 
not made up of ornamental people. They are created by statute, and are 
the appointees of the Governor and Senate. They are reliable men, and 
I believe that they discharge their trusts with fidelity. Then, next to 
these boards of accredited managers, come the grand juries of the several 
counties, who, so far as they are concerned, make visits as often as they No. 64.] 
9 
are invited. This is frequently done in the county of New York. Next 
to the grand juries come the supervisors, next to them the superintendents 
of the poor, next the local visiting committee of the Board of State Chari- 
ties, next the Board of State Charities, and then the State Commissioner 
in Lunacy. Here, gentlemen, are six distinct boards constantly visiting 
these institutions, and, therefore, capable of knowing whether or not 
they are properly executing their trusts. If we remember, in addition 
also to these boards of accredited officials, that the friends and relatives 
of patients visit them, we shall be able to judge how complete the su- 
pervision is. Then, too, there come the casual visitors, who are actuated 
either by good or improper motives—that is to say, either by curiosity or 
honest doubt which seeks to be enlightened. In one institution, near the 
city of New York, these visits last year aggregated from 10,000 to 18,000. 
Is it possible, gentlemen, that there can be a gross, concealed and habit- 
ual mal-administration under such multiplied observation ? 
Senator Goodwin—You don’t mean that a common visitor questions 
what goes on in the institution ? These people are not allowed to form 
any estimate as to its condition ? 
Dr. Ordronaux—They are not, of course, allowed the same range as 
authorized and official visitors. But I mean that they are able to satisfy 
themselves as to whether undue numbers of persons are placed in 
restraint; whether patients are debarred from the use of the exercise 
grounds; whether or not the institution is cleanly; whether or not the 
food is wholesome. These relatives or friends do not always limit them- 
selves to visiting hours. They see their friends at nearly all hours in 
the day, and sometimes come to the table with them. They can form 
some idea, therefore, of the shelter, clothing, food, and the general 
administration; and I presume that every one will admit that, wherever 
a patient’s relatives visit him, the visitor’s vigilance is awakened, and 
that he will be on the alert to see whether that patient, in whom he is 
particularly interested, is made happy and comfortable, and his cure 
promoted. The Governer has the power of investigation, as a matter of 
course. 
“Is the superintendent consulted whenever forcible restraint is 
required, and is the duration, manner, and result of this mechanical 
restraint duly recorded in a book kept for the inspection of the Commis- 
sioner in Lunacy and the courts ? ” 
I find that in every State asylum there are books of restraint kept, 
with the time in which the patient was placed in restraint, and the time 
in which he was released from restraint, together with the character of 
the restraint—all recorded. I have always made it my duty to inquire 
about this, and receive information of such a kind as leaves no doubt in 
my mind that the facts are true. 
“ How frequently does the superintendent avail himself, for the bene- 
fit of his patients, of consultations with general physicians and surgeons, 
and gentlemen eminent in the several departments of medicine ? ” 
I am not able to answer that question as well as the superintendents 
present are. 
“Ho you ever employ the barbarous and inhuman means of restraint 
known as a crib ? ” 
I have seen the covered bed, sometimes called a crib. It was pointed 
out to me in Paris, and spoken of as the most useful mode of restraint in 
certain cases; but the gentlemen present can best answer this question. 
I deem it both humane and proper. 10 
[Senate, 
“ Does the Commissioner in Lunacy give any notice of his coming to 
the officials of an asylum he is about to inspect ? ” 
It is never my habit to give notice of my coming. There may be occa- 
sions, however, when it is necessary to do so; but these occasions are so 
infrequent that they do not deserve to be mentioned as against the 
established rule. 
Whenever a general visitation is contemplated no notice is ever given. 
When a particular patient is to be examined for judicial purposes, then 
notice is necessarily given. 
“ Has the Commissioner ever visited asylums at unusual hours, as in 
the middle of the night, or in the very early morning, in order to deter- 
mine the usual condition of their wards ?” 
The first year I was in office I made some midnight visitations at 
Blackwell’s Island, but caused so much disturbance in the wards by so 
doing that it seemed to me wrong to repeat the experiment without some 
preceding evidence of necessity to justify it. 
In several instances I had reason to know that excitement was 
reawakened in patients who had been slowly recovering. 
“ Does the Commissioner ever go about an institution without com- 
pany, or at any rate without a medical or other officer, whose presence 
can prevent free speaking on the part of the attendants or patients ? ” 
I have visited and I do frequently visit an institution in this man- 
ner, and I may say this of the gentlemen who go with me, that they 
always have the good sense to retire when a patient desires to see me in 
private. I then go into the room of the patient, and he can see me by 
himself. I never go into the room of a female patient, however, unat- 
tended.’ 
“ How frequently are inspections made in the various asylums, and 
how many days in the year is the Commissioner in Lunacy engaged in 
private business not legitimately appertaining to his office ? ” 
I have no private business, gentlemen. Occasionally a court puts me 
on a commission of lunacy when a criminal is concerned, and some par- 
ticularly important business arises in the case. It happens so infre- 
quently that it can hardly be called business. My time is wholly taken 
up in visiting asylums and in answering letters about these asylums, and 
giving opinions to officials upon the construction of our lunacy statutes, 
and I have no proper private business. The office which I have in New 
York city is a State office. It is not my office. Ido not even put my 
name on the door. 
“ Does not the State, in paying the Commissioner a fair salary, make a 
contract for his whole time, customary vacation excepted ? ” 
I will leave that for the committee to decide. 
“ Was the present Commissioner appointed in strict accordance wuth 
the law which requires the candidate for this position to have been a 
physician of experience ? ” 
Inasmuch as I did not appoint myself, I take it that the Governor who 
selected, and the Senate which confirmed me, had had that question 
under consideration, and that they acted with due deliberation. All 
presumptions to the contrary would be an imputation upon either their 
intelligence or their honesty. 
I deem it my duty to say that it was only after I understood that the 
name of President Barnard had been appended without authority to this 
petition, with a view of influencing legislation, that I thought myself 
justified in taking the first occasion which might offer itself to show that No. 64.] 
11 
this petition did not, in fact, represent anything more than minors 
and insinuations. On this account, therefore, I have felt called upon to 
make these statements. It is noteworthy, also, that not one of these 
petitioners have ever spoken to me about wrongs in asylums, or called 
upon me officially to investigate these institutions. As soon as I was 
informed that Dr. Barnard’s name was attached to this petition, I 
inquired of him whether he remembered signing a petition praying the 
Legislature to investigate our State asylums, and also the official record 
of the State Commissioner in Lunacy. He replied that the only petition 
he remembered signing, within the past two years, was a petition by 
Dr. Hammond, late Surgeon-General of the Army, asking Congress to 
have his case re-opened, and a new trial granted him. He was sure that 
that was the only one which he had signed. I then read the copy of 
this petition, as it appeared in the New York Herald of March 15th, 
1879, and said: “Is it not possible that you may have forgotten signing 
this document ? ” He replied that he was very sure that he could not 
have read such a petition and signed it without remembering it. He 
was sure he said he had not signed it. The next day I received the fol- 
lowing note from him, enclosing a copy of his letter to the Hon. Hamil- 
ton Fish, disavowing his signature. A copy of this letter I sent to 
Senator Pierce. I then went to the Astor Library, where I have been a 
frequent reader, and asked the gentlemen connected with the library, 
whose names appeared on the petition, if they remembered signing such 
a petition. They denied signing such a petition, or any one of similar 
length, and asserted that they would have remembered it if they had 
done so. They then signed and handed me the following paper: 
Astor Library, March 25, 1879. 
Notwithstanding that our names are affixed to a petition now before 
the Senate of this State, in which charges of gross mal-administration 
are severally made against our lunatic asylums; and,, also, against the 
State Commissioner in Lunacy, we beg to say that we never saw, nor 
heard read, nor had explained to us, the contents of this petition before 
to-day. That some months ago we signed a paper at the solicitation of 
one Dr, Kiernan, an habitual reader in this library, solely upon his rep- 
resentation that it related to improvements, generally, in our lunatic 
asylums; but without further knowledge of its contents or purport. 
Being now, for the first time, informed of the same, we desire to with- 
draw our signatures, because, having no knowledge of the matters to 
which the petition relates, we should never, at the outset, have signed it, 
had its contents been truly represented to us, and because, also, we do 
not believe in the charges which it makes. 
FREDERICK SANDERS, Librarian. 
J. AUSTIN LEONARD, Asst. 
OSCAR A. BIERSTADT, Ass*. 
As this is not a trial upon a complaint preferred, and specific changes 
made, there would seem to be no occasion for further remarks upon a 
petition which alleges no personal knowledge on the part of the signers, 
and prays for no other remedy than that of interrogation. 
Judge Hadley—Perhaps I may say here I have been a member of 
the board of trustees of the Willard Asylum since the board was created. [Senate, 
It has been my uniform custom to visit that institution at our regular 
meetings when I have been in the State. Besides this, I have been very 
frequently, almost once a week and sometimes twice a week, through 
the building. 1 have gone through the halls night and day, sometimes 
with Dr, Chapin, and sometimes with the assistants. I have seen visit- 
ors there almost every time I have been there from the county in which 
it is located and from the neighboring counties. It is a constant daily 
practice. I have met medical gentlemen there from all parts of the 
State. I have met there Gov. Dix and Gov. Hoffman. I failed to meet 
the present Governor there because I was away. Up to this time I have 
failed to detect mal-administration of any kind. I have endeavored to 
be watchful, and sometimes have been unreasonably so, knowing the 
feeling about institutions of this kind. I have, at the request of the 
board of trustees, asked for a committee from the Legislature to come 
and visit us. We have never had a committee to inquire into us. We 
are here to-day, upon the invitation of this committee, to answer all 
questions in relation to these institutions. Dr. Chapin, who has been 
the Superintendent of the Willard Asylum since its opening, is also 
here, and you may ask whatever questions of him you may desire. It 
has seemed proper to me that the gentlemen here could, with propri- 
ety, answer any questions suggested in the petition. 
Dr. Nichols—It does not occur to me, Mr. Chairman, that I need to 
make any statement, but I shall be glad to answer any question that you 
may put to me toucliing the inquiries propounded in that petition. I 
have been Superintendent of the Bloomingdale Asylum since 1877; I was 
superintendent of that asylum once before; I never saw a copy of this 
petition; 1 have never seen any of the names; I know Dr. Wm. A. 
Hammond; I have not met him since the war; he has not been in the 
Bloomingdale Asylum ; I know a Dr. Spitzka ; I remember to have seen 
him at the asylum; once this person called upon me and made some 
inquiry in relation to becoming connected with an institution for the 
insane ; he did not visit the wards ; he made no inquiries in regard to 
its management; Ido not know Dr. Kiernan; he never visited me to 
my knowledge; I know Dr. Seguin ; I am sure he has been at the 
asylum once within the last two years, and he may have been there 
twice ; he has never been through the institution ; I know Dr. Clymer ; 
I think he has been at the asylum twice ; he has never been through the 
institution; once he did not enter into any of the wards; at another 
time he came to see a particular patient, and went into the ward in 
which the patient’s room was situated, and saw him; Ido not know Dr. 
Morton ; I never had any letters from the gentlemen I have named; no 
letters or complaints of any kind; it does not seem to me to be my duty 
to make any remarks in regard to the allegations ; I have no personal 
desire to do so ; the average number of our patients is 175 ; the number 
of assistants, two ; there is ample medical attendance ; I have no under- 
graduates in my employ. 
Dr. A. E. Macdonald—I should like to make a general denial of the 
allegations ; the present number of patients in our asylum is 1,020; I 
have an undergraduate as assistant; ours 'is a city hospital, however, 
where no salaries are paid ; I do not know Dr. Hafnmond personally ; 
he has never been in our institution ; I have been there five years; I 
know Dr. Spitzka; he has been in the asylum half a dozen times to my 
knowledge ; he has come there to visit a friend; he has been in the 
wards of the asylum—I cannot say how thoroughly; I know Dr, No. 64.] 
13 
Seguin ; he has not been a visitor to the asylum ; I do not believe Dr. 
Clymer has been there ; Dr. Morton has been there two or three times ; 
I have never heard any expression of opinion about the institution from 
any of these gentlemen except Dr. Morton, and his opinion was favorable 
to the asylum ; I know Dr. Kiernan, have known him five years and a 
half; he was employed as apothecary at our institution for about three 
and a half years ; he was dismissed upon my complaint; I have seen 
the list of names; I recollect seeing the names of several personal 
friends ; I have conversed with some of them about the petition; one of 
them told me that he signed the petition thinking it was for a new street 
railroad; that was Mr. ; he said that he was conversing with some 
gentlemen about this railroad when some one drew out a paper and 
remarked, “ Here, gentlemen, is something we all want to signupon 
the strength of that several persons appended their names, thinking it 
related to the street railroad in question ; they have all since withdrawn ; 
Dr. Pardee is one of the signers; I have since asked him about it; he 
told me that Dr. Hammond replied in answer to the question if it related 
in any manner to my institution, that it did not; so he signed it; Mr. 
Webb, of 340 Broadway, also signed it under misrepresentations made 
to him ; Dr. Spitzka was an applicant for a position in my asylum, also, 
and was rejected upon my recommendation. 
Senator Goodwin—Do you think you have sufficient medical assist- 
ance in your asylum ? 
Dr. Macdonald—Well, we are overworked, but the wrork is done; 
there is no suffering from want of care; Ido not know that the Com- 
missioner has ever given notice of his coming; Ido not know of any 
inexperienced or untrained physicians who have been appointed super- 
intendents ; on the contrary, they are all physicians of much experience ; 
the undergraduate in my institution has passed more of an examina- 
tion than a great many graduates have; I never heard it stated that 
superintendents were not versed in the anatomy of the nervous system, 
except in this petition and the newspaper comments upon it. 
Senator Goodwin—Dr. Nichols, are you acquainted with the other 
asylums of the State ? 
Dr. Nichols—l am very well acquainted with Utica, where I was as- 
sistant for two years, and have visited a number of times ; I have visited 
Willard; I never visited Poughkeepsie; lam very well acquainted with the 
Blackwell Island Asylum; 1 know every superintendent in the State; lam 
not acquainted with the majority of assistants; I know the leading assist- 
ants, those who have been in service for a long term of years; I con- 
sider the superintendents eminently qualified to hold the positions which 
they do, both professionally and morally; I think that the superintend- 
ents of insane asylums in the State of New York are at least equal to 
those of any other State ; I am unable to state what the number of my 
visitations is ; lam generally at home and always at work when at 
home. 
Senator Goodwin—Can you give the number of days in the year that 
you have been awny from the asylum in attending courts without sub- 
poenaes ? 
No, sir; I could not answer that question accurately; I think that 
every superintendent earns his salary ; I think I see my patients every 
other day; I average that at least; there is some irregularity; there 
are no patients in the asylum who are seen but once a month ; I 
frequently make unexpected visits to wards; these visits are usually 14 
[Senate , 
occasioned by the necessities of recent cases ; I make it a point to observe 
the management of the wards whenever I make unexpected visits and 
go into the wards at unusual hours; all the patients that are under 
medical treatment are under the superintendent’s medical treatment; I 
examine every new case immediately after admission ; lam responsi- 
ble for the registered diagnosis ; feeding by force is always done by 
a medical officer; perhaps that question should be qualified ; in feeding 
forcibly, and especially with a tube, all that is necessary is to introduce 
the food into the stomach; that I think should always be done by a 
medical man; patients also require at times a slight pressure; this 
might properly be done by the supervisor, 
Senator Goodwin—How frequently does the superintendent avail 
himself, for the benefit of his patients, of consultations with general phy- 
sicians and surgeons, and gentlemen eminent in the several departments 
of medicines ? 
Dr. Nichols—l am not able to answer this question. The patients at 
the Bloomingdale Asylum are all private patients. Their friends more 
frequently suggest consultations than friends of patients in the other 
institutions in the State, and are more frequently able to pay for them. I 
always have a consultation when the friends desire it. I always have a 
consultation when I feel any doubt myself in regard to the nature of a 
case or the treatment. Perhaps it is over-confidence in me, but Ido not 
very often suggest a consultation for my own satisfaction—that is, on 
account of mental disease; but Ido somewhat more frequently on account 
of certain physical complications—as in in the case of females suffering 
from uterine complications. 
Ido not use the crib at Bloomingdale. Ido not consider it a barbarous 
method of restraint. It was in use at Utica when I was an assistant 
there; and, therefore, I have had some personal knowledge of it. I 
think there are some patients who can be restrained in a horizontal posi- 
tion, and their rest and sleep obtained better by its instrumentality than 
by any other means. 
Senator Goodwin—Do you know something about the pathological 
work done in the asylums of this State ? 
Dr. Nichols—I do. 
; Senator Goodwin—Do you think it has been beneficial ? 
t Dr. Nichols—I think so. 
Senator Goodwin—Has it been ridiculed at home or abroad to your 
knowledge ? 
Dr. Nichols—Not to my knowledge. Perhaps a little hesitation 
in answering these questions makes it proper for me to state that the 
pathological work that has been done in this country, either in this State 
or elsewhere, has led to little practical result; but yet I consider it bene- 
ficial, because there is but little of human knowledge that does not 
become finally of practical service, and I have no doubt that this work 
will finally become of practical use. 
Dr. Ordronaux—1 would like to ask Dr. Nichols a question. Here is 
an extract from a paper* giving an interview with Dr. Hammond, which 
contains the following: 
“ Reporter—Can you give me an example of the confinement of a 
patient in a crib having ended fatally ? 
“ Dr. Hammond—A very recent one. A patient was sent to the Bloom- 
ingdale asylum by a very distinguished physician of this city. Do not 
* Cincinnati Daily Inquirer, November 18th, 1878. No. 64.] 
15 
mention his name; but in case this statement is called in question, he is 
ready to come forward and support it publicly. The patient was put 
into a crib the same night that he entered the asylum, and the same 
night he died—died in the crib. 
“ Reporter—What was the predisposing cause of his death? 
“Dr. Hammond—Congestion of the brain; you know very well, or you 
did know when you were a boy, that if you stoop down with your head 
between your legs your head feels dull. How much greater must be the 
compression if a man’s head is already congested, and he is compelled to 
remain in a recumbent position ? It is simply a question of mechanics.” 
Dr. Nichols, have you known of the case here described ? 
Dr. Nichols—No suchfcase has occurred since the institution has been 
under my charge. 
Dr. Chapin, being called, said; I am the Superintendent of the Wil- 
lard Asylum; have been since its opening, some ten years since. 
Senator Goodwin—Do you know these gentlemen, whose names are 
affixed to this petition, Drs. Hammond, Spitzka, Seguin and others ? 
Dr. Chapin—l have never met them; know them by reputation; no 
one of them has ever visited our asylum; none of them have written to 
me in relation to the institution, or its management. 
Q. Will you please state to the committee the system which governs 
yourself and associates in your asylum ? 
A. I am the superintendent and also physician of the asylum; I have 
the general supervision of the professional department, and also of the 
business affairs; there is a great amount of detail connected with its 
administration ; there are 1,420 patients ; there are 275 attendants and 
employes ; I direct, in a general way, the duties of these persons; there 
are five assistant physicians, one assistant on an average visiting from 
250 to 500 patients daily; every patient is visited every morning by one of 
the doctors; the assistant physicians make their visits through the wards 
in the forenoon ; they then enter into a day book a report of the condi- 
tion of the sick, and any special incidents that have occurred during the 
preceding twenty-four hours, and also the condition of their depart- 
ments ; these reports are matters of record; I always require that the 
sick should be carefully looked after, and that every person taken sick 
should be noted; in regard to the other methods that prevail, at eight 
o’clock, the farmer conies to the office; the steward is also present 
at that hour; I can transact whatever business is necessary with 
them in fifteen minutes; the farmer has little to do with the pa- 
tients ; the gardener also comes at that hour; I also receive visits in the 
morning from each of the supervisors ; we have in the outside wards four 
supervisors ; these supervisors make every morning a report of the food 
inspected by them and issued on the preceding day ; then we have what 
are called the day attendants’ reports; we have forty-three wards alto- 
gether ; these attendants’ reports contain the names of patients who have 
been dirty in their habits, the number under restraint, the cause of re- 
straint, the duration of restraint, etc., and they also contain the record 
of casualties or anything unusual that may have occurred; these are 
given to the apothecary and entered into a book kept for that purpose ; 
I make it a rule to get to my office at eight o’clock in the morning; it is 
sometimes one and after one o’clock when I am able to rise from my 
chair; I hear about the grievances of patients sometimes ; in regard to 16 
[Senate, 
the visitation of the wards there is not a month, a week, or a day but 
what a patient may have access to me if he so desires; I may be in the 
wards for two or three days at a time, and then I may be absent for 
a week or two weeks; patients, however, have access to me at any 
time; I am always ready to consult with the assistant physicians; I 
do not think, as a rule, that chronic patients require the personal and 
constant observation which is usually given to acute cases; we consider 
that our organization is quite similar to other institutions; I am 
acquainted with all the superintendents of asylums in the State except 
Dr. Talcott; I have known Dr. Gray and Dr. Cleaveland for twenty-eight 
years ; I think I am acquainted with the majority of assistants ; I con- 
sider the superintendents morally and professionally able to discharge 
their duties ; I never heard any allegations of this nature before my atten- 
tion was called to this petition ; I did not see this petition until after it 
was published in the New York Herald; I have never had an under- 
graduate employed as an assistant in the asylum. 
Dr. Chapin—We have not introduced the crib into the asylum; I do 
not consider it a barbarous means of restraint; we have as substitute 
what is known as the Wyman bed strap ; I do not think there is much 
objection to the crib for patients who are much debilitated; it is mostly 
used in acute cases in my experience; the average death rate in the 
asylum is six per cent; restraint has always been more necessary for 
men than women; the record of restraint upon the day of my leaving 
home was for the previous twenty-four hours, five women among 754; 
the number of men restrained was twenty-seven among 655; I have 
always thought it a good principle that patients should be clothed every 
day, and properly prepared to be placed upon the hall, where they could 
be observed by every person inspecting the asylum; the amount of 
restraint, I think, has been very much reduced by having a daily report 
made of it, by inquiring of attendants, and noticing the daily report; 
the restraint used in our asylum is the muff and the camisole; the 
camisole is a jacket made of endless sleeves; the muff is a leather 
instrument with two bands, encircling the wrist, from which the patient 
is unable to withdraw his hands ; we have eight members of our board 
of managers, two physicians among them ; they are in the habit of visit- 
ing and investigating whenever and wherever they please; the visits 
during the summer and spring are more frequent; this is due to build- 
ing going on; they go through the wards alone sometimes, sometimes 
with the assistants, sometimes with the attendants. 
Q. Do you concur in what these gentlemen have stated ? 
A. I do. 
Dr. C. F. Macdonald—Besides putting in a general denial, I want J,o 
make a statement in regard to some of the signers of the petition, parti- 
cularly Dr. Willard Parker; I think a great deal of stress has been laid 
upon his name; I met Dr. Willard Parker not long since, and in con- 
versation with him about it, he said that he had not signed a petition 
making such allegations; having a copy of the petition, Dr. Wey, of 
Elmira, read it to him, and then he said, “ I never signed that peti- 
tion ; ” in reference to the visits of the Commissioner in Lunacy, he has 
come announced and unannounced; he has made night inspections and 
early morning inspections, has visited the wards when the meals were 
served, and has examined into the complaints of patients—heard their 
complaints alone, sometimes for an hour at a time. No. 64.] 
17 
Dr. A. E. Macdonald re-called—The death rate at my asylum last 
year was about fourteen per cent; I use the crib; Ido not consider it 
barbarous; I use it whenever it is necessary; lam under the city 
department. 
Dr. S. H. Talcott—I represent the Middletown Asylum; the rules are 
very much like those which govern the asylum at Utica; both of my 
assistants are graduates of classical colleges, and have been educated not 
only in this country, but also abroad; we have a woman employed at the 
asylum who makes special examinations of the female patients; she is a 
student of medicine, but she never has the control of the patients in any 
way; as far as these allegations go, I do not understand how any of 
them concern the asylum at Middletown; we had, until recently, three 
physicians on the board of managers; it is the duty of these to visit the 
asylum once a month; I have often consulted with them in regard to 
particular cases; as far as prescribing is concerned, I prescribe for every 
patient myself; the assistants make up the records, and keep the gen- 
eral run of the wards; restraint has never been used except at the 
instance of myself or one of the assistant physicians; we have 171 
patients; we have the restraint or crib bed; we have, at the present time, 
a patient who sleeps in one of these beds; Ido not consider it as barba- 
rous or inhuman; I consider it as an exceedingly proper thing to use in 
some cases where patients would be likely to destroy themselves; the 
Commissioner of Lunacy has visited the asylum a number of times ; he 
has occasionally notified me when he wished to consult in regard to a 
criminal case or two, of which I had charge ; he has been of great assist- 
ance to me in many cases; he has been upon the wards at all hours of 
the day, sometimes with the assistants, sometimes with myself; when- 
ever a patient has expressed a desire to see him he has gone into the 
patient’s room, and heard his complaints privately; I saw only the name 
of one person who has visited my asylum on this petition, that of a young 
man who was a student of medicine. 
Dr. J. Ordronaux—One question touching the Homoeopathic Asylum. 
If the statute had been critically applied, it would have at first excluded 
that asylum in regard to the superintendents having had previous hos- 
pital training. Dr. Talcott has the advantage of Dr. Stiles, however, as 
he had been in the Ward’s Island Hospital. The Middletown Asylum 
now fills the requirements of law. 
Dr. J.M. Cleayeland—l have been in charge of the Poughkeepsie Asy- 
lum since 1871; I know Dr. Hammond; I have met Dr. Hammond, Dr. 
Clymer, and Dr. Seguin; all these gentlemen, with the exception of Dr. 
Seguin, have visited the Poughkeepsie Asylum since its opening; Dr. 
Hammond has visited the institution on one or two occasions; it must 
have been three or four years ago; he passed the Sunday about the 
place; both he and Dr. Clymer spoke highly of the institution; we have 
not used the crib within a year; we dispensed with it, owing to the 
prejudice which seemed to be increasing in the community against its 
use; I think it is a form of restraint which should be used at times, but 
I think it should be used very cautiously; I think some patients would 
be seriously injured by its use ; I think it is the most humane form of 
restraint possible for patients who are constantly out of bed, who would 
not sleep, and who would exhaust themselves; I have been acquainted 
[Senate Doc. No. 64.] 18 
[Senate, 
with the superintendents at Utica, Willard, and Blooming-dale; these 
are .the only ones I have met; Dr. Ordronanx has sometimes given notice 
of his coming; sometimes not. 
Q. Did Dr. Lockhart Robertson visit your asylum in company with 
Dr. Hammond ? 
A. No, not in company with Dr. Hammond. 
Dr. G-ray—l do not think I have anything special to say in regard 
to the general management of the institution, but I call the attention 
of the committee to the fact that, the duties of the superintendents and 
assistants, and all other officers and employees, are prescribed by the 
statutes, by-laws, and the rules and regulations which are directed to 
be framed by the managers of asylums under the statutes ; the statutes 
by-laws, etc., are all before the committee; the assistant physicians 
are required by these to visit daily and report to the superintendent; I 
am in constant communication and consultation with my assistants; the 
records have always been kept by them; restraint is only applied, by order 
of the physicians; the restraints we use are the camisole, restraint belt; 
and occasionally the muff; these have all been described in the annual 
reports of the asylum made to the Legislature, and their uses fully 
explained; in regard to the crib, I found it in use when I went to Utica, 
having been introduced by Dr. Brigham in 1846, who was then superin- 
tendent ; it was not at that time as comfortable as now ; the only thing 
I did was to make it more comfortable and easy for sick patients, and 
I have always believed it to be a very humane method of treatment for 
certain cases who are feeble and anaemic, in securing a horizontal posi- 
tion, and for feeble persons who would get up at night and stand till 
exhausted, or put their heads out of the windows and expose them- 
selves ; it is a long time since we have used what Dr. Chapin has de- 
scribed as the bed-straps; it was a question with me whether to use 
the bed-strap or the crib; in my judgment, from the use of both, I 
incline to the use of the crib; this should always be prescribed by a 
medical officer, and it is—-just as the medicines are; in reference to 
forcible feeding, no one who had any familiarity with the asylums would 
suggest such a question; I have been called frequently before courts as 
an expert; I never received an order from the Attorney-General in my 
life ; but have been requested by that officer and by the Governor to ex- 
amine certain criminal cases with reference to their sanity; I see every 
case and consider myself responsible for the registered diagnosis; 
if any one of these petitioners would consult the statutes and regula- 
tions, they would see that they require that the superintendent 
shall have the general medical direction and charge, and that the assist- 
ant physicians shall act under him; 1 have looked over the petition 
before the committee carefully; I recognize in that whole list the names 
of but two persons who have ever been inside the wards of the asylum, 
and those not for many years; I never had a letter of inquiry directed 
to me by any petitioner on that -whole list, touching the institution, its 
management, or any special case in the asylum; never had any letters 
of complaint; I know but few of the petitioners; in regard to the visits 
of the State Commissioner in Lunacy he has come unannounced some- 
times, and at other times has given notification; sometimes I have 
requested it in order to be able to consult with him in regard to criminal 
cases in the asylum; as regards his seeing patients privately, I have 
generally given him the keys, and he has gone through the wards alone, 
or with the assistants, and occasionally with me; I have never felt any No. 64.] 
19 
concealment or any preparation of any kind necessary for him or any 
one else ; whenever a patient has desired to see the Commissioner he 
has been able to do so; I also send all letters to the State Commissioner 
which any patient has desired to have sent him. Of the allegations, 
some eight or nine in number, every one is absolutely untrue, and has 
always been so in regard to the State Lunatic Asylum at Utica ; there 
has never been an assistant there who has not had experience either in 
civil or military hospitals, in the twenty-five years that I have been 
superintendent, with the exception of two, and one of those had had 
several years of general practice ; in that whole period only one had 
no experience after graduating, and the rule departed from in this case 
has never been violated since; my present staff have all had hospital 
experience. 
Senator Goodwin—Will you explain, doctor, about your lecturing at 
Bellevue Hospital Medical College ? 
Dr. Gray—Certainly; I never sought the position ; I received a letter 
requesting me to accept the appointment of lecturer which had been 
made ; I had not before heard of it, and no friend of mine had said 
anything to me about it; I submitted the question to the board of man- 
agers of the asylum and after due deliberation they advised me to ac- 
cept the appointment and deliver the lectures. This was in 1875, and 
the next year I was appointed “ Professor of Psychological Medicine 
and Medical Jurisprudence,” which I still hold. The board of man- 
agers, at Utica, to whom I referred the matter, as well as others whom I 
consulted, thought it the proper thing for me to do, and that I ought to 
thus impart whatever information and experience I was able to give to 
the medical profession. 
Dr. Ordronaux—I will add a few remarks upon that subject. Early 
in my administration I took occasion to speak upon this subject, as to 
whether or not it was an infraction of duty on the part of Dr. Gray 
to absent himself. When speaking with Judge Alexander S. John- 
son, he took the ground that though Dr. Gray was a public officer, the 
experience of his twenty-five years, which knowledge had been recog- 
nized in courts by the very frequent calling of Dr. Gray as an expert, 
etc., rendered that knowledge more than personal property for him, and 
it was right to give him the privilege of transferring to others the knowl- 
edge which he held,and said the managers had urged him to accept. In 
view of the fact also, that there had been no lectures annually delivered 
upon the large subject of insanity, no regular and systematic course, the 
managers took the ground that if they could in any degree add to the 
value of a medical course of instruction by introducing this hitherto neg- 
lected branch, they would do so. 
Statements Taken Before the Committee on Public Health on 
Petition About Asylums, May 8, 1879. 
The committee reassembled on Thursday, May 8. 
There were present the State Commisssioner in Lunacy, Dr. Jno. 
Ordronaux; Drs. John P. Gray, John B. Chapin, J. M. Cleveland, A. E. 
Macdonald, Selden H. Talcott, Carlos .F. Macdonald, C. 11. Nichols, 
superintendents of various asylums of the State, and other persons. 
Chairman Goebel—If there are present here any gentlemen whose 
names appear upon this petition, the committee will take their names. 
lam one; lam Dr. Win. A. Hammond. [Senate, 
lam one, also; lam Dr. Win. J. Morton. 
Dr. Hammond—l may say, sir, that there Avas to be a number of others 
here to-day, but there was a misunderstanding about appearing. These 
gentlemen Avill certainly appear here another day. lam ready to go on 
to-day. 
Senator Goodwin—Doctor, it Avill, perhaps, be as well to state that this 
examination is not in pursuance of any resolution of the Senate, but 
simply in regard to this petition referred to this committee, and the com- 
mittee are unable, of course, to make any report to the Senate without 
some information in regard to the allegations contained in the petition, and 
it occurred to the committee that they would invite the most prominent 
gentlemen upon this petition to come before us, if it was convenient to 
do so, and give us AAdiatever information they had upon the subject of 
this petition. I would say that the object of the committee is to obtain 
facts upon Avhich, in their judgment, they could base some opinion to be 
submitted to the Senate. With that view, I will ask you a few questions 
in reference to this petition. We are not desirous of considering the 
theories Avhich are contained in it; but simply want to consider the alle- 
gations. You are a practicing physician and surgeon, and reside in the 
city of New York ? 
Dr. Hammond—Yes, sir. 
Senator Goodwin—You have signed the petition wdiich is now before 
the committee ? 
Dr. Hammond—Yes, sir; that is my signature. 
Senator Goodwin—Had you anything to do with the getting up of 
this petition, doctor ? 
Dr. Hammond—Nothing whatever; I never saAV the petition until it 
was printed; I was not on the committee of Neurological Society, which 
prepared the petition; the reason my name appears first is that, in this 
copy, all the signatures that I got are on that sheet (pointing to the 
first), and the others Avere appended by me, so as to make them come 
after this sheet. 
Q. Did you obtain signatures to the petition ? 
A. Yes, sir; beginning with my own name, and leaving off at Dr. 
Morton’s; lam responsible from my oavu name doAvn to Dr. Seguin’s. 
Q. Were all the additional petitions handed you ? 
A. They were. 
Q. Were all the papers handed to you similar to the printed one 
heading this petition ? 
A. Yes, sir; they all contained that heading, printed as this is. 
Q. Do you remember hoAv many Avere sent you ? 
A. I cannot state exactly; I think there were about half a dozen; 
they Avere sent to me because I was understood to be in correspondence 
with Senator McCarthy upon the subject; that was the only reason; Dr. 
Seguin obtained the names down as far as here (down as far as the name 
of EdAvard C. Spitzka); they Avere pieces of paper that were headed 
with this petition, and which I posted on my memorial. 
Q. We want to know if this printed memorial, which is appended to 
this petition, as it is now before the committee, was attached to the vari- 
ous petitions ? 
A. Not upon the copy Avhich I had, but each had a similar copy to 
this, and I cut them off' and pasted them together. No. 64.] 
21 
Q. But these names were appended to one or another of copies like 
that (presenting the printed heading of the petition). 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. You had no consultation with any one in reference to this ? 
A. No, sir. 
Q. Who sent you the petition originally ? 
A. I think it was sent me by Dr. Mcßride ; he was the chairman of 
the committee of the Neurological Society, which drew up the petition ; 
Dr. Seguin was present when the petition, was drawn up. 
Q. Doctor, have you ever visited any of the insane asylums of this 
State ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. Which ones ? 
A. I have visited the one at Utica, the one at Poughkeepsie, the one at 
Blackwell’s Island, the one at Bloomingdale, and a public institution at 
Flatbush. 
Q. When did you visit the asylum at Utica ? 
A. The last time I was at the asylum at Utica was about eight years 
ago. 
Q. How many times were you there before your last visit ? 
A. I think I have been there three times—it may have been twice ; 
I am not sure but I stopped there once with Dr, Gray as we were coming 
down from Rochester; I hardly think I stopped there then. 
Q. Previous to your last visit, about what time was that ? 
A. A few years before. 
Q. How often have you visited Poughkeepsie ? 
A. Five or six times. 
Q. When were you there last ? 
A. About four years ago ; it may have been less than four years ago. 
Q. Was the asylum in operation then ? 
A. Yes, sir, patients were received there. 
Q. How long before your last visit were you there ? 
A. I went up there frequently at short intervals, two or three times 
in one summer; I know the officers there very well, and I was a friend 
of Dr. Kellogg, one of the assistants ; have stayed over night with him 
on some occasions. 
Q. When did you last visit Blackwell’s Island Asylum ? 
A. Some time during Dr. Parsons’ administration; probably one and 
a half or two years ago; I have not visited there since the present incum- 
bent has been in office; I do not remember how many times I have 
visited that asylum; very frequently. 
Q. How often have you visited Bloomingdale Asylum ? 
A. I have not visited there since Dr. Nichols has been in charge ; pre- 
vious to his coming I had been in the asylum many times; during Dr. 
Brown’s administration I visited there very often; the last time was 
about three years ago. 
Q. Have you visited Flushing P 
A. I have been at Flushing very often; I have been there within a 
year or two. 
Q. You have never vsited Dr. Chapin or the Willard Asylum ? 
A. No, sir. 
Q. Is there any other asylum which you have not visited ? 
A. I have never been in the Ward’s Island Asylum, nor in the one at 
Buffalo; I never was in the Canandaigua Asylum. [Senate, 
Q. Have you ever addressed letters and communications of any kind 
to the superintendents of these asylums in reference to the treatment of 
the insane ? 
A. Not of a general character; I may have done so in the case of par- 
ticular persons or patients whom I sent to an asylum. 
Q. Have you had any communication with them upon the subject, 
either verbally or in writing ? 
A. Not formally—no, sir; I have talked with several superintendents 
in the matter, but no formal communications; nothing in the way of 
formal protests or formal expression of opinion, although I have given 
my opinion when asked. 
Q. Have you ever seen this petition in print before this year—before 
1879? 
A. No, sir 
Q. Do you remember a petition relating to asylums being sent to the 
Legislature last year ? 
A. I do, sir. 
Q. Was not that petition substantially the same as this ? 
A. No, sir; it was entirely different; that petition related solely to 
restraint in asylums; while this also relates to restraint, that one related 
to restraint alone ; I think there were some things in it regarding the 
Utica Asylum. 
Q. Has this petition been published in any medical journal since it 
appeared in the public press ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. In what journal; do you remember ? 
A. It has only been published in any journal within the last few 
weeks; it was published in the Chicago Journal, the Journal of Mental 
Diseases, and the Journal which I edit, as a neurological contribution. 
Q. Are you connected with the Chicago Journal ? 
A. I have a nominal connection with it; I have no interest in it what- 
ever. 
Q. It says on page four of this memorial: “ The petitioners believe the 
following statements to be well founded. * * * Superintendents of 
insane asylums are, nearly without exception, not chosen from among 
medical men who have pursued special studies in neurology at home and 
abroad, and who are wTell-trained physicians, but from assistant physi- 
cians of asylums, who, having been badly chosen (vide infra), have passed 
a number of years immured in an institution.” Will you state what 
you know in reference to that allegation ? 
A. I know of one fact which bears upon this allegation, that the super- 
intendents are not chosen from medical men who have ever pursued 
special studies in neurology; a most glaring instance is Dr. Strew, of 
Blackwell’s Island Asylum, and whom I know had never pursued the 
study of neurology before his appointment as superintendent; he has 
been appointed within two years ; he is still superintendent there. 
Q. Do you know of any other instance ? 
A. I do not know of any other instance in this State ; I do not recol- 
lect any at the present moment; the superintendents at Utica, at Wil- 
lard, and at Poughkeepsie, I believe to be all competent men; in another 
case, however, I think there is reason to believe that the superintendent 
had no previous experience in the treatment of insanity; I allude to the 
Superintendent of the Ward’s Island Asylum, Dr. Macdonald. No. 64.] 
Q. Do yon consider Dr. Strew a well-trained physician, independent 
of his experience, in the treatment of insanity ? 
A. I should not like to express an opinion upon that point; I was only 
speaking of his neurological knowledge. 
Q. Is he a regular physician in good standing ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. We will go to the second paragraph, which reads—I suppose the 
vide infra in the preceding paragraph refers to this one. 
A. Yes, sir. 
“ Assistant physicians of asylums (future candidates for the position 
of superintendent), are nearly always men Just issued from our too ele- 
mentary, medical schools; men who have not served in civil hospitals 
(which can be entered only by severe competitive examination), .” 
Q. Have you any acquaintance with assistant physicians in asylums 
in this State ? 
A. Yes, sir; I know them by general repute, and my general knowl- 
edge of them, and I have known a number personally who are probably 
not connected with institutions now. 
Q, What asylums, doctor, if any, are there in the State who have 
assistant physicians who are just out of the “too elementary, medical 
schools ? ” 
A. The Blackwell’s Island Asylum is one, and in support of that 
assertion I would refer you to the last report of the Board of State Chari- 
ties, which states that that asylum has had eighteen assistants within 
the last two years; not living in asylums, I am not cognizant of all 
things contained in this petition; but lam prepared to establish this in 
regard to Blackwell’s Island; I do not know of my own knowledge that 
this exists in any other asylum of the State; this asylum (Blackwell’s) 
is the one which I have been most accustomed to visiting; I believe the 
contrary to exist in asylums in other parts of the State—at Willard, 
Utica, and Poughkeepsie. 
Q. Do you know of any institutions in the State which has physicians 
serving upon its staff who have not had previous hospital training ? 
A. 1 know there are such physicians at Blackwell’s Island; not any- 
where else to my knowledge. 
Q. Do you know of any institution in this State which does not furnish 
the means of study, such as medical journals, books, and instruments ? 
A. I do; that is, they had not had them at the time I visited 
them; they did not have them at either Poughkeepsie, Utica, or Black- 
well’s Island; they did not have them eight years ago at Utica"; since 
then they may have procured them; I understand they have procured 
them at Poughkeepsie since this petition was signed; Utica probably 
had them long ago; I may say, in correction of my former remark, that 
although they may not have procured them, they have ordered them to 
my knowledge at Poughkeepsie. 
Q. Is it not true that the superintendents of these asylums are men 
who have been assistants ? 
A. I suppose the majority of them have been; that paragraph does 
wholly apply to asylums of this State; I think it applies to some extent. 
Q. What assistant physician, to your knowledge, has been overworked 
and wretchedly paid ? 
A. I think they all are; I think the assistants at Poughkeepsie are 
all greatly overworked and wretchedly paid; and I believe the physi- 
cians on the Island asylums have not been paid at all. 24 
[Senate, 
Q. What is your knowledge of the time of the assistant physicians 
being taken up in writing useless histories of cases, receiving visitors, etc. 
A. I have reference to no particular institution in saying this ; I think 
it exists certainly at Blackwell’s Island, and to a considerable extent at 
Poughkeepsie. 
Q. At the time you visited these institutions—say at Utica—how long 
did you stay there ? 
A. I don’t think that I should be warranted in making any observa- 
tions upon that institution ; I went through the wards upon one occasion 
while there, went through very thoroughly; upon another occasion I 
spent a considerable period with Dr. Kellogg there, but as to the exact 
time I could not state ; I never was there over a part of the day. 
Q. Did you make a thorough investigation of the workings of the 
asylum ? 
A. As far as externals go, I saw the routine of service, etc. 
Q. From what you saw there upon that occasion, did you notice that 
the time of the assistant physicians was taken up more with writing up 
histories of cases and receiving visitors than in attending patients ? 
A. I should not like to say that positively; recollect these are general 
assertions which are based upon personal knowledge and hearsay evi- 
dence ; it is scarcely fair to tie me down to making this allegation 
against one institution. 
Senator Goodwin—We are not trying to do so; we speak of Utica 
first, because it comes first on the list. 
Dr. Hammond—l can say that the assistant physicians of my knowl- 
edge are wretchedly overworked and paid, and the time of a great many 
of them is taken up with such work; I have seen it and know it to be a 
fact. 
Q. I speak, about Utica, because— 
Dr. Hammond—That is the asylum that I know the least about. 
Q. I understand you to say, that you came to this conclusion about the 
time of assistants being taken up, etc., at the time you were at Utica ? 
A. No, sir; I have come to the conclusion since from what then took 
place. 
Q. Now, what other asylums have you come to the same conclusion 
about ? 
A. At Bloomingdale I have seen it over and over again ; within two 
or three years; while Dr. Brown was in charge of the institution. 
Q. This allegation, then, so far as Bloomingdale is concerned, is made 
upon your own personal inspection ? 
A. My personal knowledge from visits there is better . 
Q. You think, doctor, that the largest asylum in this State has four 
assistants, and that this number is too small ? 
A. I certainly do. 
Senator Goodwin—Well, I think you are right there. 
Q. Do you take this to be the fault of the boards of management ? 
A. It is the fault of somebody; I do not think it should be charged 
upon the boards of managers ; it is a fault that should be rectified by 
the Legislature. 
Q. You say that the “insane asylums, in spite of enormous outalys of 
money, are indifferently officereddo you mean by that that the officers 
are incompetent, or that there is not a sufficient number of them ? 
A. There is not a sufficient number of them, and they are incompe- 
tent in some cases. No. 64.] 
Q. Which ones do you consider incompetent ? 
A. I think they are incompetent at the city hospitals in New York 
city; Ido not know of it being the case anywhere else. 
Q. Are you acquainted with the superintendents of asylums of this 
State ? 
A. I think I know them all, except the one at Buffalo. 
Q. Do you know any of them who are not versed in “ the anatomy 
and physiology of the nervous system, the part chiefly concerned in in- 
sanity P” 
A. I do not believe any of them are ; that is a matter, however, which 
I could not know about personally without examining them; such is my 
opinion, however. 
Q. Is it your opinion “ that superintendents and their assistants are, 
with hardly an exception, not skilled in the modern methods of diagno- 
sis and of post-mortem examinations ? ” 
A. Yes, sir, in regard to the brain, 
Q. Give us your reasons for believing these superintendents and as- 
sistants to be unskilled in this department. 
A. I believe it from their habits—from what they write ; these gentle- 
men have never written anything which would show that they know 
anything of these branches, that they have not been trained in modern 
methods ; I believe this to be true of the majority of them; I form this 
opinion, because none of them, with the exception of Dr. Gray and Dr. 
Shaw, have ever written upon the subject. 
Q. Does the fact of their not writing upon a subject prove that they 
know nothing about that subject ? You think that if a man knew any- 
thing about it, he would write ? 
A. I could prove it also by conversations which I have had with some 
of them; by what I have heard of their teachings in medical colleges 
and lectures; Ido not profess to know about all of them. 
Q. Doctor, how many of the superintendents of asylums in this State 
have taught in the medical colleges ? 
A. Certainly three; Dr. Gray, Dr. Macdonald, and I think Dr. Shaw 
has lectured. 
Q. Do you know any of the superintendents of the asylums in this 
State who are not able to read French or German ? 
A. I think I know a great many of them who cannot read German. 
Q. Can you state who they are ? 
A. Yes, sir; Dr. Strew cannot read German; if you will let me 
express my belief in the matter, I shall be very explicit. 
Senator Goodwin—I would rather have your knowledge upon the 
subject. Can you state anybody else besides the gentleman you have 
named, who cannot read French or German ? Do you know any one 
else who cannot read these articles referred to in this paragraph (point- 
ing to memorial) ? 
A. I think that several of the superintendents can read French, but 
very few can read German; I am very confident that Dr. Strew can 
neither read French nor German. 
Q. Do you consider a man incompetent for the office of superintend- 
ent or assistant who cannot read French or German ? 
A. No, sir. 
Q. He may be competent without these ? 
A. Yes, sir. 26 
[Senate, 
Q. Doctor, what do you know about the pathological work done in the 
asylums of the State ? 
A. There has been none done that we know anything about, except 
at Utica; Ido not think there has been anything done except at Utica, 
unless we mention a few observations made at Ward’s Island Asylum 
by one or two of the assistants. 
Q. This paragraph says : “ The little pathological work which has been 
done in our asylums at enormous cost, has been of the most elementary 
sort, and has been ridiculed at home and abroad.” Does this refer to 
the Utica Asylum P 
A. Yes, sir; Ido not think the work is worth much. 
Q. Do you know of any journals, foreign journals or others, in which 
this work has been ridiculed ? 
A. I do not know that of my own knowledge; one of the committee 
which drew up the petition told me this. 
Q. Have you seen the work ridiculed in any established medical 
journals ? 
A. No, sir; I will take that back; I have seen it severely criticised 
in the Chicago Journal of Nervous Diseases. 
Q. Can you state who was the author of the article in reference to that 
work ? 
A. Yes, sir ; it was written by a very skillful physician ; a man who 
probably knows more about the subject than any of us. 
Q. Will you state his name ? 
A. Dr. Spitzka. 
Q, Have you seen any notice of the pathological work in any foreign 
journal ? 
A. I have never seen it alluded to, and that is one reason to believe 
that it is of little importance. 
Q. Dr, Bucknill is a physician of high standing, is he not ? 
A. He is of eminence in psychology, but not in pathology; I think he 
is familiar with its mode of thought and expression; I have great 
respect for him, 
Q. A criticism is made upon our asylums failing to compete for the 
Tuke prize. Is that any evidence of demoralization ? 
A. I think it is; yes, sir; with the immense amount of material at 
their disposal and the great quantity of apparatus, they ought to have 
taken that prize, instead of allowing it to be taken by a gentleman who 
has no connection with an asylum. 
Q, Do you think that the time of the superintendents should be occu- 
pied in preparing and delivering essays ? 
A. Yes, sir, I do; I think that is just as important as doing many 
other things. 
Q. Did you ever make any personal examination of the pathological 
work done at Utica ? 
A. I have seen some of the results ; have seen some of the specimens; 
I do not base my opinion of the work upon an examination of these 
specimens ; they were remarkably well done ; I base my opinion upon 
the fact that the work is not accepted by medical journals. 
Q. Do you know of any undergraduates, who are acting as assistant 
physicians in any of the asylums of this State ? 
A. I understand that to exist in reference to Blackwell’s Island. 
Senator Goodwin—l have made inquiries in the matter and find that 
to be true. No. 64.J 
27 
Dr. Hammond—I do not think it exists in other institutions except, 
perhaps, at Flatbush ; I am very confident that it does not exist at 
Poughkeepsie, Willard, or Utica; I can remember when it was done at 
Blackwell’s Island; not within seven or eight years; I knew it to exist 
then; I have heard that it has been done there quite recently; they 
were not paid assistants, but they had the care and responsibility of the 
insane; they prescribed for the sick; to my own knowledge I have not 
known of a case in seven or eight years, but I believe it has existed 
there. 
Q. Doctor, would you think that a layman in reading this seventh 
paragraph : “ In some of our asylums the pernicious practice of allow- 
ing undergraduates accepted without bona fide examination, to act as 
assistant physicians is tolerated,” would imply that it was only one case, 
and that it had existed seven or eight years ago, or that it was in prac- 
tice at the present time ? 
A. That is not a legal question ; I did not, however, write that para- 
graph ; I was not cognizant of it in fact; the person who wrote the para- 
graph may have more extensive information than I have on the subject. 
Q. Who did write that ? 
A. Dr. Spitzka wrote that; I may say that I have got through about 
all I care to say to-day ; these are allegations which are not made by 
me ; they are things which require investigation I believe ; I had noth- 
ing to do with the preparing of the petition in any single sense. 
Q. Look at paragraph ten, which asks : “ Is feeding by force always 
done by a medical officer, or in his presence, as it should be ? ” Do you 
know of any asylum in the State where feeding by force is not done by 
a physician or in his presence ? 
A. I know it is not done so in Bloomingdale ; to my own knowledge 
attendants have been allowed to feed by force there ; at no other asylum 
to my knowledge, but from the statements of those who do know—Dr. 
Kiernan among them—I believe it has been done at Ward’s Island; I 
believe Dr. Kiernan knows it as to Ward’s Island ; I know it as regards 
Bloomingdale; Ido not charge that it is done at Blackwell’s Island, but 
I have an immense amount of belief on the subject; my opinion is 
formed upon analogy. 
Q. Look, doctor, at the eleventh paragraph, which reads : “Is the 
superintendent consulted whenever forcible restraint is required, and is 
the duration, manner, and result of this mechanical restraint duly re- 
corded in a book kept for the inspection of the Commissioner in Lunacy 
and of the courts ?” Do you know of any asylums in which the super- 
intendent is not consulted ? 
A. I know he is not at Bloomingdale ; I know it is not so at Ward’s 
Island ; nowhere else of my own knowledge. 
Q. The thirteenth paragraph reads : “Do you ever employ the bar- 
barous and injurious means of restraint known as a crib ? ” What do 
you know of that matter ? 
A. I know the crib is employed in a number of institutions. 
Q. Do you consider it a “ barbarous and inhuman means of restraint ? ” 
A. I most certainly do. 
Q. Is it considered, by the medical profession, to be a barbarous and 
inhuman means of restraint ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. By the medical profession as a whole ? 
A. I think so, sir. 28 
[Senate, 
Q. Do you know, as a matter of fact, that there is not an asylum super- 
intendent in this State who considers it as “ barbarous and inhuman ? ” 
A. I think they consider it quite the contrary, and there is where they 
are wrong; I think the medical profession generally is opposed to them 
on this subject, 
Q. Is it your opinion that the majority of medical experts in this 
country consider the use of the crib bed as “barbarous and inhuman ? ” 
A. Most decidedly; of course, you know, it is quite impossible to 
obtain the number of medical men who are, or who are not, in favor of 
it; you might, perhaps, get a hundred to say that it was not cruel, and 
I could get a hundred on the other side. 
Q. You seem to use this expression : “Do you ever employ the bar- 
barous and inhuman method of restraint known as a crib,” as if the 
medical profession and the public generally so regarded it ? 
A, I never mentioned the subject of the use of this restraint to a phy- 
sician, outside of a lunatic asylum, who did not disapprove of it; not 
only is this true, but it has been condemned by some of the most emi- 
nent alienists of the world; Ido not believe the superintendents use it 
from any purpose to be inhuman. 
Q. Do you think you could obtain, from any conscientious superin- 
tendent using the crib, an affirmative answer to the question: “Is the 
crib barbarous and inhuman ? ” 
A. I think, if I employed it, I would hardly say it was barbarous or 
inhuman; I think myself that that paragraph is too strongly worded; 
so far as the idea is concerned, I fully indorse it; Ido not mean to say 
that these gentlemen use it from any idea of being barbarous or 
inhuman. 
Q. Would you not consider it a fair conclusion by a layman, in read- 
ing this paragraph, that the use of the crib was barbarous and inhuman ? 
A. I could not say about that. 
Q. Did you ever see a patient restrained by a crib ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Q. How many times ? 
A. Two or three times. 
Q, Did you know anything about the condition of the patients who 
were restrained ? 
A. No; but I know pretty positively, as well as I know anything else, 
that a patient died in a crib, in an asylum not far from New York city. 
Q. Did you know anything of the antecedents of the case ? 
A. No, sir; but I know, from my knowledge of humanity, that the 
crib is a barbarous and inhuman mode of treatment; have you ever seen 
the crib ? 
Dr. Hammond—Then you have seen its dimensions; it is not as big as 
a wild-cat’s cage; perhaps as wide as this table, about two feet six 
inches high, and shut in at the top with iron bars, with a spring lock 
attached; in this the patient is put upon his back; he cannot rise to a 
sitting posture; I know that nothing can be more injurious than that for 
an acute case; this is exactly what allows congestion of the brain to 
take place with the utmost facility; it is like a child’s crib, except that 
the patient is locked up in it. 
Q. Is there any great difference between the use of the bed-strap and 
the use of the crib ? Can a person rise who is confined to bed with 
straps-? 
Senator Goodwin—l have. No. 64] 
29 
A. Probably not; no, sir; I think that is just as bad, or almost as bad, 
as the crib; there is this difference : you may strap a man in bed in a 
sitting posture; in the crib, no matter how much blood there is in the 
patient’s head, he is obliged to lie down, 
Q. You say that the crib is “ barbarous and inhuman,” Is that not 
simply a difference of opinion ? Do you take the fact of its being used 
as an evidence of mismanagement in an asylum ? 
A. I should not like to say that it was; it is an evidence of a bad 
practice and bad management, but not mismanagement, 
Q. Any system, then, that is practiced in an asylum, which does not 
coincide with your views on the management of insane, you regard as a 
bad practice ? 
A. I do. 
Q. Would you consider the fact of a difference of opinion existing in 
regard to the use of restraint to be a subject-matter for a memorial to 
the Legislature ? 
A. Decidedly so ; the practice should be restrained by law. 
Q, Do you think that a legislative committee composed of laymen 
would be a proper body to determine the question as to whether a certain 
system should or should not be adopted in asylums ? 
A. No, sir; they would not be a competent body to say whether or 
not the crib should be used; the Legislature should appoint a committee 
to investigate the management of the asylums of the State of New 
York; if they find, after receiving the evidence of medical men, it is 
not a good thing, let them do away with it; Ido not think that any of 
these gentlemen would be competent to advise the Legislature in this 
matter; if this committee had the power to act upon the matter, I should 
know better what opinions to express; if this committee was the one 
which was charged with the duty of investigating asylums— 
Senator Goodwin—We are not, doctor. The object of this investiga- 
tion is simply to have the committee form an opinion as to what recom- 
mendations shall be made to the Senate in the matter, and if it demanded 
further action. 
Q. The petition says: “In view of the above numerous reasons for 
believing that there exists gross mismanagement in the medical adminis- 
tration of insane asylums in this State, your petitioners do respectfully 
request that your honorable body appoint a committee for the examina- 
tion of the management of all institutions for the care of the insane in 
the State of New York.” What reasons are there for believing that 
there is gross mismanagement in the asylums of this State ? 
A. I have gone over them for the past hour, sir. 
Q. Are these your reasons ? 
A. Yes, sir; I want to say one thing of the points in page three of 
the petition; I have no knowledge of them myself; I simply have the 
information from very straight evidence, and I signed the petition after 
making some inquiries, and reading it over carefully, but of my own 
knowledge I do not know anything of these points; but there is a 
gentleman who will come here another day who says he can testify in 
reference to those points; in regard to the sixth paragraph ; “Was the 
present Commissioner appointed in strict accordance with the law which 
requires the candidate for this position to have been a physician of 
experience,” I would like to say that I have understood that the present 
Commissioner has never practiced medicine; I do not know how true 
this is; Ido not think it is necessary that he should have had practiced 30 
[Senate, 
medicine in order to have made a good Commissioner; so far as he is 
concerned, I know very little. 
Q. Have yon stated anything, which has occurred to your knowledge 
about the Utica Asylum within eight years ? 
A. I have not stated anything in regard to Utica except as to the 
number of physicians and the pathological work. 
Q. Have you stated anything that has occurred within the last three 
years at Bloomingdale ? 
A. Not to my knowledge. 
Q. Have you stated anything that has occurred at Blackwell’s Island 
since the present superintendent has been in office P 
A. I know nothing of that institution, but I know the superintendent. 
Q. Do you base your allegations upon your knowledge of the super- 
intendent ? 
A. Yes, sir, within the last three years I do; I know if I have a bad 
cook that I shall have a bad dinner. 
Q. Are you on friendly terms with the Blackwell’s Island superintend- 
ent ? 
A. On perfectly good terms ; unless, perhaps, after this examination 
we should not be. 
Q. Are you friendly with all the superintendents ? 
A. Not with all of them; the ones I am least friendly with I have said 
the least about. 
Q. Would you have any objection to their asking you a few questions ? 
A. Yes, sir; I would object to it at present; if these gentlemen with- 
draw their opposition to an investigation I would have no objection to 
their questions. 
Senator Goodwin—We are entirely disinterested in the matter, 
gentlemen. We propose to do our duty, and if there is any probable 
cause for an investigation we propose to bring it about. 
Dr. Hammond—I hope it will be brought about; it should be, for the 
interest of our State ; if one-tenth of these allegations are true, there 
should be an investigation. 
Q. Would you desire, Dr. Hammond, that investigation should be 
made entirely upon rumor ? 
A. You can bring others to testify besides the signers of this petition ; 
inmates of asylums, persons who have been attendants, visitors of hos- 
pitals, etc. 
Q. Would you advise an investigation founded solely upon complaints 
of persons who had been insane ? 
A. If you use the word “ solely,” no, sir; as corroboratory evidence, 
their testimony is of great importance ; as to forcible feeding, I saw my- 
self the throat of a lady who had been a patient at Bloomingdale, and 
who had been forcibly fed by one of the nurses ; the larynx gave evi- 
dence of it, the tonsils were injured ; I saw that myself; the lady came 
to my office and I examined her throat. 
Q. Suppose that an insane woman, who had been confined in an in- 
sane asylum, after she had been liberated, either cured or otherwise, 
would state to you as a physician, that certain wounds which you could 
see were caused by the treatment of a physician in that asylum, a man 
whom you had known to be a gentleman of probity and worth, would 
you consider that a subject of legislative inquiry ? 
A. No, and I should not make it so. No. 64.] 
31 
Q. Would you object to some questions being asked by tbe President 
of tbe State Board of Charities ? 
A. A great deal depends upon the time ; I am going away at half- 
past five ; I would like to state here that the case of forcible feeding at 
Bloomingdale did not occur under the present superintendent. 
Mr. Letchworth, the President of the State Board of Charities, stated 
that he did not care to put any questions to Dr. Hammond. 
Senator Goodwin—Did you ever recommend Dr. Shaw for a position 
in any of the asylums of this State ? 
A. Yes, sir; I recommended him for the position of superintendent 
at Flatbush. 
Q. Did he have any previous experience in the treatment of the in- 
sane ? 
A. He was a skilled neurologist; he had made a specialty of this 
branch ; he had no experience except in private practice. 
Q. Have you anything further to state P 
A. I have nothing further. 
Dr. W. J. Morton was next called, and stated—l am a petitioner on 
this petition; I have read the petition—read it when I signed it; I did 
not circulate it. 
Q. Upon whose suggestion did you sign this petition ? 
A. I belong to the Neurological Society from which the committee 
was appointed to frame the petition; I was interested in it at that time; 
I signed upon nobody’s solicitation; Dr. Shaw was the President of the 
Society; lam unwilling to make any allegations againt any of the asy- 
lums ; I thought from what I had seen and heard of the asylums that an 
investigation would certainly do them no harm, and be productive of 
good; I have no special allegation to make; I never signed anything 
except the first sheet; I have been a physician for seven years; I have 
visited Ward’s Island and Blackwell’s Island; no other asylum; have 
never written to any of the superintendents; I have been a visitor, under 
the State Aid Association, to Ward’s Island and Blackwell’s Island; I 
know nothing of any of the asylums of the State, except the two men- 
tioned; as to the special management of Ward’s Island, I know almost 
nothing; I think it is conducted in an excellent manner, as to the whole 
institution; but as to the principle or manner of caring for patients, on 
such a crowded scale, I have most decided objections; I make a special 
point, in regard to the Superintendent of Ward’s Island, that he has 
done all that he could; I have not the slightest complaint, except as to 
the crowding; I have never been employed as a physician in an asylum ; 
I have never had much experience of the insane; I have been interested 
for many years in the study of neurology; I have no complaint against 
Blackwell’s Island, except its overcrowded and filthy condition; 1 only 
know personally of Ward’s Island; have had knowledge of that asylum 
for about a year and a half. 
Q. Do you mean to say that “ superintendents of insane asylums are, 
nearly without exception, not chosen from among medical men who have 
pursued special studies in neurology, at home and abroad, and who are 
well-trained physicians, but from among assistant physicians of asylums 
who, after being badly chosen, have passed a number of years immured 
in an institution ? ” 
A. I know nothing about that; have not the slightest information. 
Q. Do you know anything of the matters contained in pages four and 
five of this petition ? [Senate, 
A. I have conversed with a number of assistant physicians in asylums 
who feel that they are extremely overworked, and that their positions 
are very wretched ones; my own common sense has told me that four 
physicians could not possibly do the work of looking after 1,000 patients; 
I think the physicians are too few; I know this to be the fact at Ward’s 
Island and Blackwell’s Island; Ido not know of any others. 
Q. Is there anything else you would like to speak about ? 
A. The only points I would, are paragraphs eleven and thirteen; I 
think restraint is applied without the consultation of the Superintendent 
at Ward’s Island; nowhere else, to my knowledge; I also think the use 
of the crib is barbarous and inhuman. 
Q. Doctor, if it was sworn to by every one of the superintendents of 
insane asylums in this State, whose experience ranged from twenty-five 
years to five, that, in their judgment, the use- of the crib was not barba- 
rous or inhuman, would it have any effect upon your mind ? 
A. Not the slightest. 
Q. Suppose these physicians were to tell you that this crib was the 
best mode of bringing about a certain, desirable condition of mind and 
body in the patient, and that this was their experience after a study of 
some twenty-five years, would that make any impression upon your 
mind ? 
A. I should prefer to take my own judgment. 
Q. Where there is a difference of opinion in the profession, upon a 
point like this, would you consider it as a matter of legislative inquiry ? 
A. I think this is more than a difference of opinion; 1 think that the 
majority of physicians are opposed to this violent means of restraint. 
Q. Have yon ever talked with any physician connected with a lunatic 
asylum of the State upon the use of the crib ? 
A. It has been spoken of between Dr. Macdonald and myself while 
in the wards; with no one else ; I never have spoken to a physician out 
of the State. 
Q. Your opinion, then, is formed upon your own idea ? 
A, From what I have seen; one case is as good as a dozen. 
Q. Have you any reason to believe that any of the superintendents 
have neglected their duty ? 
A. No, sir; I have some reason to believe so from hearing people say 
so; it is like any rumor; my belief is formed upon rumor; I considered 
the information wdiich I heard as passably reliable; had no great confi- 
dence in it; I have been told it by gentlemen who have been in asylnms, 
whose names are upon the petition; the information has been founded 
upon what has been said by two of the signers; these gentlemen will 
come before the committee; I should prefer not to name them ; I wish 
to state that I have no grounds upon which to make allegations, but I 
think the whole thing should be investigated. 
Q, I will ask you one question. Would you, as a professional man, 
advise the Legislature of this State to make investigation of charges 
founded simply upon rumor, upon which the whole management of 
insane asylums is involved ? 
A. No; but I think there is a great deal besides rumor in it; because 
there are men who avow these things to every person they meet; if these 
men should not come before the committee, I should think there was no 
reason for investigation; I merely came here to substantiate my name 
upon the petition. No. 64.] 
33 
Q. Are these two institutions yon have mentioned here under the con- 
trol of the charities of New York city ? 
A. I believe they are ; my personal views do not concern any of the 
State asylums ; I only believe in a general way that this matter should 
be investigated; if I were superintendent of an insane asylum and any 
question of this kind arose, I should invite an investigation by a legisla- 
tive committee ; 1 think these charges can be substantiated; I think Dr. 
Kiernan has said a great deal about the institutions; Dr. Spitzka and 
Dr. Seguin have very strong opinions regarding restraint. 
Q. Do you know that Dr. Kiernan is a dismissed employe from 
Ward’s Island? 
A. I did not. 
Q. Would you still have the same confidence in his opinion, if you 
were aware of this fact ? 
A. I think I would if he came here and stated his evidence to the 
committee; Dr. Hammond also mentioned people who are living in 
asylums, attendants, assistants, patients, and so on. 
Q. Do you think that the fact of a patent’s confinement in an asylum 
would have any effect upon his judgment as to the proper mode of treat- 
ment ? 
A. It certainly would affect his judgment in prejudice of the asylum; 
but it would help other’s testimony. 
Q. If you understood that Dr. Kiernan had written an anonymous, 
threatening letter to the Ward’s Island superintendent in reference 
to this matter of investigation, you would still have the same respect for 
his opinion ? 
A. Any anonymous communication written by a person would serve 
to weaken my respect for him; I think I would have a great lack of 
respect for any man who would write anonymous letters. 
(Dr. Macdonald offered an anonymous letter by Dr. Kiernan.) 
Q. Do you know that Dr. Kiernan publicly stated that the object he 
wished to accomplish for himself by this petition was an appointment in 
an asylum ? 
A. Any personal motive of that kind would weaken my respect in a 
man, or in his testimony; I trusted that Dr. Kiernan’s motives were pure. 
Dr .A. E. Macdonald—I took occasion, yesterday, while in New 
York, to ascertain as to some of the signers of this petition; lam very 
sorry I did not have an opportunity to say this before Dr. Hammond; I 
have here the withdrawal, in writing, of the city chamberlain, Mr. Tap- 
pan ; Mr. Tappan stated to me that a petition was passed around the 
club (the New York club) quite late at night, and was signed by himself 
and thirteen others, with the idea that it was a club paper; he had no 
knowledge that it concerned lunatic asylums; here, also, is the letter of 
withdrawal of Dr. Smith; he was an assistant with me six or eight 
months; I asked him how his name came there; he stated that Dr. 
Kiernan presented this petition to him without a word of printed matter 
at the top, and only this heading: “The undersigned cordially indorse 
Dr. Kiernan’s petition.” Dr. Kiernan presented it saying: “It will 
probably get me an appointment in an asylumboth ot these gen- 
tlemen stated that there was no such heading on the paper as is now on 
it; Dr. Moiton is a regularly authorized visitor to the asylum, under 
appointment of the State Aid Association, and has visited it profession- 
ally ; Dr. Hammond has never been in the asylum. 
[Senate Doc. No. 64.J [Senate, 
Dr. Morton, returning, said—l think I heard Dr. Macdonald say 
something about names being falsely signed to this petition; I intended 
to mention the case of Dr. Barnard, I heard Dr. Segnin say that he 
personally secured the name of this Professor Barnard, that he not only 
did this, but that he afterwards received a note from Prof. Barnard, say- 
ing that he fully indorsed everything in the petition ; he has that letter 
on tile ; as far as that would go, it would place Professor Barnard in a 
very curious position. 
Dr. A. E. Macdonald—l would like to say one thing more ; I was an as- 
sistant once at Bloomingdale, and was also an assistant in the asylum of 
which lam now superintendent; I was chief of the Charity Hospital 
three years; I have been in my present position now five years. 
Dr. Gray—l would like to say a word in correction of a statement 
made by Dr. Hammond, which is contrary to my recollection and belief; 
it is in regard to his visits in Utica ; he has never been at the institu- 
tion but twice ; once, about twelve years ago, when he came to the city 
to see a sick person; he came to the asylum and spent,. I think, not over 
half an hour in the office and in going through two or three of the 
wards; he went in these wards on the men’s side, asking me if I would 
show him some general paretics in the various stages of the disease ; he 
said he had but a short time to stay, and that he would like to see some 
of that class ; I had some brought to the third ward, which is convenient 
to the office, and we walked through the first and second wards, looked 
at the patients and then came out; Dr. Cleveland was then my first 
assistant; Dr, Hammond states that there was a lack of instruments and 
library ; in this he is quite mistaken ; we had a full supply of instruments 
for professional use, and a library then of at least 2,000 volumes; he 
never looked at the library, or asked about books or instruments; he 
never asked a question regarding any of these things; he thought he 
was there coming down from Rochester after the Montgomery trial; 
we came from Rochester together, leaving Rochester at five o’clock, 
passed Utica at ten o’clock at night, and he did not stop there; the only 
other time he was there was when he came up, under an arrangement 
with a lawyer to see a private patient in the asylum; this lawyer came 
to me a few hours before Dr. Hammond’s arrival, and said that he had 
employed Dr. Hammond on his own responsibility to examine and see 
this patient, and see if he could not get him out; I told the lawyer that 
no person could examine any patient in the asylum without a letter or 
request from the friends, or an order from a court, and tf d without one 
of these it could not be permitted; I then consulted Senator Kernan, 
who was a member of the board of managers, and Mr. J. Watson Wil- 
liams, also a member of the board—both attorneys ; they told me under 
no circumstances to permit such a thing to be done ; I waited at the 
asylum some time for Dr. Hammond to come up, but he did not come; I 
was obliged to be absent, and I left word that if he should appear in my 
absence the message should be given him; he did come and the mes- 
sage was given him; he did not go into the wards of the asylum or any- 
where else about the institution, beyond the office and the parlor, as I 
was informed on my return. 
Adjourned to Thursday, May 15th, No. 64.] 
The committee reassembled on Thursday, May 15th, at 8.30 p. m. 
Senators Goebel and Goodwin present. Several of the asylum superin- 
tendents and others were present, and Dr. E, C. Spitzka and Dr. James 
G. Kiernan petitioners. 
Senator Goodwin—Gentlemen, we are here upon a petition which was 
presented to the Senate, and referred to the Committee on Public Health, 
and it was thought advisable to invite a number of prominent gentle- 
men, whose names are attached to this petition, to come before us, and 
throw whatever light upon the subject-matter of the petition they might 
have. According to the plan laid down by this committee, we desire 
facts upon the allegations. With that view, I will ask you, Dr. Spitzka, 
a few questions. 
You are a practicing physician ? 
Dr. Spitzka—Yes, sir; have been so for five or six years; I graduated 
in 1878; I have had asylum experience in Vienna; held no formal posi- 
tion in an asylum; studied under the leading physician of an asylum 
and professor of the university of Vienna; have not had charge of 
patients; was there in no official capacity; called myself a student there; 
was there one and a half years; have no other asylum experience ; I 
am practicing in New York; I devote my whole time to my profession; 
I am engaged in no other business, and never was engaged in any other 
profession but the medical profession; I was the writer of the paper 
which was the beginning of the movement for this petition; the paper 
was read before the Neurological Society of New York city, composed of 
specialists treating mental and nervous diseases; I am the responsible 
instigator of some of the charges implied; there are no formal charges; 
Ido not lay any stress upon the fourth ; the ninth; not upon the twelfth; 
I am not responsible for the statement that “ assistant physicians are 
employed in writing useless histories,” etc.; those are points for which I 
do not consider myself responsible; I consider myself as responsible for 
all the others; by that I mean that I am willing to be publicly stul- 
tified, if I cannot prove that there is good reason for making these 
charges; the committee of the society, which sent the petition to you, 
assisted me in preparing it; Dr. E, C. Seguin, Professor of Nervous Dis- 
eases, at Columbia College ; Dr. Harwood, of New York ; Dr. Langdon C. 
Gray, Dr. James G. Kiernan; Dr. Hammond was a member of the com- 
mittee, but was not engaged in drawing the paper up; these gentlemen 
are all I can think of at this moment; Dr. Hammond got many of the 
signatures to the petition; he saw the petition before it was circulated, 
and before it was given to the society; it was sent to him by mail; I 
had some conversation with Dr. Hammond before it was Circulated; no 
suggestions were made to him ; it was printed when I had the conver- 
sation with him; it was sent to him in manuscript; I do not know 
whether he returned it to any one or not; I have a copy of the petition 
with me; I know some of the superintendents of asylums; I am 
acquainted with the Superintendent of Ward’s Island, and with the late 
Superintendent of Blackwell’s Island—that is all; I have never visited 
any of the State asylums; I have never written any of the superintend- 
ents of asylums in reference to hospital treatment, but I have challenged 
them to meet me; I have not written them in any way. 
Q. State, if you please, who among the superintendents of insane 
asylums in this State have not pursued any special studies in neurology 
at home and abroad. 
A. Dr. A. E. Macdonald, Superintendent of the Ward’s Island 36 
[Senate, 
Asylum, has not pursued them abroad, and his whole qualifications for 
the position which he now holds were those of a quasi-attendant at the 
Bloomingdale Asylum; Dr. John P. Gray, of the Utica Asylum, was not 
qualified by studies in Europe; Ido not consider that an essential 
requisite, by the way; they may be as competent by studying here as 
anywhere else ; the Superintendent of the Buffalo Asylum, if I under- 
stand that there is a superintendent, has not studied in Europe; Ido 
not know that he is a superintendent yet; he is a Dr. Andrews; I believe 
he was to be the superintendent; these are all of whom I have any 
personal knowledge as not studying abroad; others may have pursued 
special studies in neurology, but they do not show it—there is no evi- 
dence of it; in the sense in which that paragraph is written, there is not 
one superintendent who has made special study of neurology; the word 
“ study,” as I understand it, means not only to study but to assimilate a 
subject. 
Q. Do you consider that a man cannot be competent to be a superin- 
tendent of an insane asylum unless he has pursued special studies in 
neurology at home and abroad ? 
A. If he has studied properly at home, he will be competent most 
assuredly. 
Q. You say that no superintendent of an asylum in this State is a 
skilled neurologist ? 
A. Not a scientific neurologist—that is what I mean. 
Q. Do you know of any superintendent of an asylum in this State 
who is not well-trained ? 
A. Yes, sir; the Superintendent at Ward’s Island is one, and the 
Superintendent at Utica is another; these are two instances; I do not 
believe any of them to be well-trained; I certainly except Dr. Chapin 
from this, however. 
Q. What is a well-trained physician ? 
A. It would take me more than this week to explain that to you, sir. 
Q. Is that your answer to the question ? 
A. Yes, sir, that is my answer. 
Senator Goodwin—Well, perhaps my comprehension is not as quick 
as some other people’s ? 
Dr. Spitzka—l do not mean that, sir; you are a layman, and it would 
be very difficult for me to explain— 
Q. Well, suppose that I was a physician, how long would it take 
then ? 
A. I would give you an instance showing that these men were not 
competent. 
Q. I ask you now what you consider a well-trained physician ? 
A. A man who, in the first place, is well versed in the neurological 
science of the brain ; and in the second place, who knows the actual value 
of drugs in the treatment of this disease. 
Q. Do you consider yourself a well-trained physician ? 
A. I should not be here, if I did not consider myself a well-trained 
physician. 
Q. Hoiv long have you been a physician ? 
A. For five years. 
Q. Do not some of these gentlemen, these superintendents of asylums, 
have some reputation in the profession ? 
A. You know how reputations are acquired— 
Q. I ask you that question. No. 64.] 
37 
A. No reputation worth having ; I mean in the medical profession, of 
course. 
Q. How do you arrive at that broad proposition ? It is a very startling 
one to me that none of these gentlemen have any reputation worth 
speaking of after their long medical experience ? 
A. Because I know every specialist, or the majority, who are impartial 
critics, who agree with me in this assertion ; all the eminent specialists out 
of asylums who treat of nervous diseases; the foremost medical journal 
in this country indorses this petition. 
Q. Do I understand you to say, that persons who do not agree with 
you upon a medical question are all in the wrong ? 
A. That is not implied; no, sir. 
Q. What other reasons have you for saying that superintendents are 
not well trained ? 
A. My own opinion, based upon their writings and their annual reports. 
Q. Please state what “ assistant physicians of asylums, who after 
having been badly chosen, and who, after having passed many years 
immured m institutions,” have been made superintendents ? 
A. Dr. John P. Gray was an assistant in an asylum; he was badly 
chosen, as the result shows. 
Q. Who else ? 
A. I presume assistant superintendents are also superintendents ? 
Q. Not in this sense. 
A. I have only a definite knowledge of one or two. 
Q. In the second paragraph you state that “assistant physicians of asy- 
lums are nearly always men just issued from our too elementary medical 
schools,” will you name some of them P 
A. Dr. James G. Kiernan ; he became an assistant right away after 
graduation ; a certain Mr. Washburn, who passed into an asylum with- 
out having graduated; a certain Mr. Pitkin—l object to the names 
being put in the paper; I believe my communications are privileged. 
Senator Goodwin—Of course, we do not desire to have you state any- 
thing you don’t want to state ; but anything you do say is at the disposal 
of the committee. 
Q. This Mr. Washburn, what asylum was he in ? 
A. Ward’s Island. 
Q. What year was it ? 
A. I cannot tell exactly; I think it was in 1875. 
Q. Who was the superintendent ? 
A. A. E. Macdonald, the present superintendent. 
Q. Do you know anything about how he came there, this Mr. Wash- 
burn ? 
A. He simply was appointed in the ordinary course of things; I don’t 
know by whom; I did not inquire. 
Dr. A. E. Macdonald—Will the committee permit me to ask Dr. 
Spitzka whether or no, the gentlemen of whom he has spoken were not 
first examined by a proper committee ? 
Dr. Spitzka—l object to every question put by a superintendent of an 
asylum. 
Senator Goodwin—l will ask that question as coming from the com- 
mittee. 
A. I evade the question; I refuse to answer that question on the 
ground that it was a question submitted by a superintendent. 
Senator Goodwin—You are not obliged to answer any question. 38 
[Senate, 
These questions are simply for the purpose of getting information for a 
report to the Senate. There is no legal, moral, or any other obligation 
to answer any question that you want to refuse. It is not a committee 
of investigation. 
You say in the petition the “ qualifications of assistant physicians are 
not submitted to any medical test.” Do you know of any assistants who 
have not been tested ? 
A. Tested in the medical sense of the term—that is, all these ap- 
pointees of the two asylums, on Blackwell’s and Ward’s Islands, pass 
through a farce of an examination; that is not only shown by the exam- 
ination, but by the acquirements which they have exhibited after pass- 
ing the ordeal; to the best of my knowledge and belief, they are 
appointed by laymen, and not by medical men, and they are frequently 
appointed upon the suggestion of local politicians, 
Q. Will you state an instance where an assistant has been appointed 
upon the suggestion of local politicians ? 
A. I will state no instance, because I know of none that I wish to 
state. 
Q. What is your information and belief; where does the informa- 
tion come from ? 
A. I have that opinion because more than thirty parties have said so, 
and because this so exactly coincides with what I believe; I refuse to 
give the names of the parties; I refuse to give the information which I 
have received. 
Q. What asylums, if any, to your knowledge, are not possessed of the 
proper “ books and instruments ” for use ? 
A. The asylums on Ward’s Island, Blackwell’s Island, and at Pough- 
keepsie ; they did not have them until this petition was circulated, and 
then they bought them; those were the only ones I knew of. 
Q. What assistant physicians, if any, to your knowledge, have for- 
gotten “ what general medicine they knew on graduating ? ” 
A, I won’t give any special name ; if it is the serious intention of this 
committee to investigate, I would like to understand it; Ido not like 
little quibbling, nor anything of that kind. 
Senator Goodwin—You must excuse me, but the committee will choose 
its own way of proceeding with this matter. 
Dr. Spitzka—The physicians who have signed this petition will care- 
fully watch the progress of this bill in the Legislature—Dr. Seguin, Dr. 
Hammond, Dr. Mcßride and others. 
Q. Do you know of any superintendent whose name you would be 
willing to give who has, forgotten what he knew ? 
A. I have known of all the superintendents who have written any- 
thing ; their writings prove that they are not competent alienists; I have 
criticised them in print myself, and have never received the slightest 
response from them, although they were present in the city at the time. 
Q. In your experience as a physician, have you ever known communi- 
cations to be made, in either newspapers or medical journals, which 
some persons did not think were worth noticing ? 
A. I have met such, certainly. 
Q. And you think that a person who does not answer an attack or 
communication made, that therefore they are incompetent to answer ? 
A. If a document is worth noticing by all the eminent medical men 
of the country, it is certainly worth the attention of these superin- 
tendents. No. 64.] 
Q. What “ assistant physicians, (to your knowledge), are overworked 
and wretchedly paid,” as stated in the petition ? 
A. I simply know of this matter from persons who have been through 
asylums; I know that some are overworked and not paid at all. 
Senator Goodwin—From your description of the assistant physicians 
it would be hard to find any who were worth any salary, or worthy of 
the position which they possess. 
Dr. Spitzka—l did not say that they are all unfit. 
Q. I will ask you if you know of any medical men* attached to an 
asylum in the State, who is qualified for the position which he occupies P 
A. For all the administrative duties, certainly—Dr. Chapin, to the 
best of my knowledge, is one ; I do not know about his medical know- 
ledge ; if he had written anything, any special article, I might be able 
to judge of this. 
Q. You test their knowledge by their medical contributions ? 
A.. By their medical and scientific contributions ; yes, sir; if I can- 
not examine them personally, I judge by this ; if they do not write any- 
thing, I do not form an opinion. 
Q, Do you know of any assistant whose time is taken up in “ writing 
interminable useless histories of cases,” receiving visitors, etc. ? (I read 
from the petition.) 
A. All the assistant physicians I have seen on Ward’s Island—five or 
six of them in number—I have seen taking histories that were not of 
any great value, and I have seen them talking with visitors by the two 
hours instead of treating their patients. 
Q. Have you seen it in any other asylum ? 
A. No, I have not seen it in any other asylum. 
Q. Your petition says “superintendents and their assistants, hardly 
with an exception, are not versed in the new anatomy and physiology of 
the nervous system; ” will you please explain what is meant by the new 
anatomy ? 
A. Well, you perhaps know that science is progressing; very often, 
then, science within the short space of ten years becomes entirely altered, 
and puts on an entirely different aspect; this is the case with regard to 
the study of the brain and spinal cord, the part with which alienists are 
most concerned ; the new anatomy is that which we have arrived at to- 
day ; I call the old anatomy crude and erroneous—that is, regarding 
the brain and nervous system. 
Q. What superintendents or assistants are not versed in the new ana- 
tomy ? 
A. The Superintendent of the Ward’s Island Asylum, and the Super- 
intendent of the Asylum at Utica ; those are all the superintendents of 
whom I have any positive knowledge ; I know of an assistant wdio not 
only knows nothing of the new anatomy of the brain, but is even so 
wretchedly educated in general, that he once insisted that the Italian 
language was written backwards; that is a point in his general educa- 
tion, and his medical knowledge is still more wretched ; I will not name 
him. 
Q. What superintendents or assistants are not believed to be versed 
“ in the modern methods of diagnosis ? ” 
A. I decline to mention names of institutions here. 
Q. What superintendents and assistants, of your own knowledge, are 
unable to read German ? 
A. lam not responsible for that, sir; I would not insist upon that; a [Senate, 
man could be versed in only one language and yet be a competent alien- 
ist. 
Q. Upon what is your knowledge founded when you state that there 
are superintendents and assistants in this State who are not skilled in 
the methods of conducting post-mortems ? 
A. Sir, I believe that a superintendent, holding that high position, 
should be interested enough in this work to attend some of the autopsies 
which are made in the asylum, and investigate this subject thoroughly; 
I know of one superintendent at whose asylum I assisted in making forty 
or fifty autopsies, and who was not present at one of them, and 1 have 
been told by an assistant, who has been there since, that he has not 
attended any since that time, except once, and that was when they had 
a coroner’s jury there; I decline to mention the asylum; if this were a 
privileged communication, I would do so; I might prove this statement, 
that this superintendent, during the year and a half in which I made 
these autopsies, was not present upon a single occasion; I decline to 
give the superintendent’s name. -■? 
Q. Turn to the sixth paragraph; you say there that the pathological 
work done in the asylums has been ridiculed at home and abroad. 
"Where has it been ridiculed abroad ? 
A. In the Jahresbericht, the Retrospect of Mental Science, which is 
published in Germany, and edited by Virchow and Hirsh, and by West- 
phal; I think it was the year 1874; lam not prepared to give minute 
information; I can give it to you in writing; I have it somewhere; 
Westphal, who is the professor at Berlin, states that the micro-photo- 
graphs, which are made at so much expense, and with much halloo, at 
Utica, under the term of pathology, show no relation to insanity; the 
work being ridiculed at home, refers to reviews which I have written for 
the Journal of Mental Diseases, published in Chicago. 
Q. Is the fact that you have written articles against this pathological 
work proof that it has been ridiculed in this country ? 
A. If it happens to coincide with the writings of eminent authorities 
abroad, certainly. 
Q. Have you examined any of this pathological work done at Utica ? 
A. 1 have examined the publications and the photographs; I have 
never been in the Utica Asylum; that is not necessary; the work speaks 
for itself. 
Q. You seem to find fault with this pathological work because it did 
not compete for the Tuke prizes P 
Dr. Spitzka—l objected to having that inserted in the petition; this 
was a prize offered in England; I know nothing about the number of 
competitors; I know nothing about it; I know, however, that it was 
advertised by the American Journal of Insanity, and that all Americans 
were urged to compete strenuously for it. 
Q. In paragraph seven of the petition, you say “ the pernicious prac- 
tice of allowing undergraduates to act as assistant physicians,” has been 
permitted; name one asylum ? 
A. The city asylum on Ward’s Island, that is the one I have formed 
my opinion on; I know indirectly of others; I have seen the published 
reports of other asylums in which the names of undergraduates are 
given"as belonging to the staff; the asylum upon Blackwell’s Island is 
one of these. 
Q. What is the name of the undergraduate ? 
A. I refuse to give the name. No. 64.J 
41 
Q. Is it not published ? 
A, I do not propose to direct attention to a man Avho has committed 
no greater crime than that of entering our wretched asylums; this thing 
happened, however, throughout the whole of four years; there has 
always been one man who has not been a graduate there ; I can give you 
the names of four men who have served before they had graduated. 
Senator Goodwin—That has been denied before this committee. 
A. Then it is a downright falsehood and a lie ; I am willing to testify 
before a committee of investigation upon this point; lam responsible 
for that. 
Q. You refuse to give the asylums in which these persons were 
appointed ? 
A. The city asylum on Ward’s Island—that is one to my positive 
knowledge; I have inferential knowledge about the others; I have 
formed my opinion about them, and I am not such an idiot as to form 
my opinion upon nothing; obviously these questions are prompted by 
the superintendents, from first Id last. 
Senator Goodwin—Dr. Spitzka, this examination is supposed to be 
conducted and the questions put to you by gentlemen, and I shall be 
obliged to you if you will be as careful as possible in your replies to 
questions. That is all I have to say to you on that point. 
Dr. Spitzka—l am simply insisting upon the quality of my privilege. 
Q. Did you circulate this petition ? 
A. I did. 
Q. Was the petition you circulated in this form ? 
A., Yes, sir. 
Q. With the same heading ? 
A. Yes, sir. 
Qj, How far did you get these names ? 
A. As far as from the name of Mary Putnam Jacobi down to Alex- 
ander Hadden. 
Q. Did you read the petition to the persons who signed it ? 
A. I either read it to them or left it at their houses; I either read it 
to them or gave them the main points in it; I gave the main points to 
Mrs. Jacobi; my recollection about the rest is a little imperfect, with 
the exception of Dr. Hawkins, at whose house I left the petition ; I read 
the whole petition to E. J, Messemer ; Dr. Kiernan read the petition ; 
John E. Ferdinand got the main points in the petition from me ; do not 
know whether Dr. Hawkins read it or not; I gave Alexander Hadden 
the main points in the petition ; that is all the signatures I obtained. 
Q. Will you state to the committee what points in this petition you 
gave to Mrs. Jacobi ? 
A. I cannot tell exactly; I gave her in general terms the objects of 
the petition—that it was the suspicion of the committee, who drew up 
the paper, that it was necessary to have an investigating committee 
appointed into the asylums ; that is about all I said to her; she told me 
afterwards, she had read the petition. 
Q. Did you see any of these petitions before they were handed in to 
Dr. Hammond with the signatures of others ? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Dr. Hammond testified that these petitions were all sent to him, 
and that he took off the printed matter and put them together himself. 
A. To the best of my knowledge, we each went around with the peti- 
tion—at least I did ; the thing was not glued to, or pinned to the paper ; 42 
[Senate, 
I went around with them separately, and then they were pasted to- 
gether ; I saw some of the names pasted together at Dr. Mcßride’s. 
Q. These rolls, which are here pasted together, did each one contain 
this printed petition ? 
A. The petition was separate from the roll; I could not state whether 
the petition was affixed or not; I really regret that lam not permitted 
to give some of these points in a way in which I could tell more about 
these allegations. 
Senator Goodwin—Well, perhaps we will give you the time you de- 
sire afterwards—after we get through asking you these questions. 
Dr. Spitzka—l only want ten minutes’ time; that is all I ask. 
Q. Do you know of any superintendent, who, to your knowledge, is 
not on duty in his office or in his wards ? 
A. Yes, sir ; but I will not mention names ; I was at one superintend- 
ent’s asylum ; I will mention the asylum—it was Ward’s Island ; I had 
occasion to go into the office while I was making post-mortems at the 
asylum ; I happened to go into the office five days out of seven, and on 
every one of those five days the superintendent was absent from his 
office the entire afternoon ; they told me that he was away from the asy- 
lum ; I asked the question incidentally, not with any idea of the pres- 
ent inquiry ; that is the only superintendent I know of. 
Q. Have you ever been told by any persons whose names you are now 
willing to give, that any of the superintendents have been thus direlict 
in their duty ? 
A. I have got it from very reliable authority, but would not give the 
names. 
Q. Do you know of any who are engaged in private practice ? 
A. Yes, sir; I decline to give the names. 
Q. Upon what grounds ? * 
A. I decline simply unless the communication shall be privileged ? 
Q. The names will not be used, if that will suit you. 
Dr. Spitzka—l decline to give the names unless the committee shall 
have full power to investigate. 
Senator Goodwin—This is a standing committee on public health. 
The petition was referred to this committee, not for any purpose of 
investigating, but simply to obtain facts upon which they might make 
a report to thejSenate upon this petition. We thought it better to invite 
you gentlemen to come before us and give the reasons for your com- 
plaints. 
Dr. Spitzka—lf this committee had asked for documents or docu- 
mentary evidence— 
Senator Goodwin—Then our committee would be as long in making 
a report as it would take you to tell what a competent physician is. 
Q. Do you know of any asylum which does not possess the instru- 
ments mentioned in paragraph nine, page two, “such common instru- 
ments as the thermometer, opthalmoscope, asthesiometer, dynamometer, 
sphygmograph, microscope, Faradic and galvanic electricalbatteries, the 
speculum and uterine sound, chemicals for the examination of urine, 
etc. ? ” 
A. As I have told you before, sir, that is one of the charges I am not 
responsible for; I know that the asylum on Ward’s Island did not possess 
them as long as I had been in that asylum. 
Q. Do you, of your own knowledge, know of any asylum where 
feeding by force is not done by a medical officer, or in his presence ? No. 64.] 
43 
A. Certainly; the official report of the investigation by the Commis- 
sioner in Lunacy in the case of Mrs. Norton shows that attendants were 
uniformly in the habit of feeding by force the patients in the island 
asylums, and tearing their throats to pieces; I have not seen it done 
myself, but I have got the documentary proof at my disposal. 
Q. Have yon any such information that you could communicate to the 
committee ? 
A. I will do so when an investigating committee is appointed. 
Q. Do yon know of any asylum in which the superintendent is not 
consulted whenever forcible restraint is applied ? 
A. Yes, sir; the asylum on Ward’s Island, where a non-medical man 
has, in the absence of every medical man, ordered restraint to be 
applied; it was revealed in the investigation of the Bloomingdale Asy- 
lum, that a record of the restraint was not kept, neither by the superin- 
tendent nor any one else; these two asylums are all of which I have any 
knowledge. 
Q. Have yon any information of other asylums in this matter ? 
A. I have; I refuse to give the names of the asylums. 
Q. Do yon know, to your own knowledge, of any superintendent who 
does not avail himself, for the benefit of his patients, of consultations 
with eminent medical men ? 
A. I have ho such specific'knowledge that I could give; no, sir. 
Q. Do yon consider the use of the crib as barbarous and inhuman ? 
A. Most decidedly. 
Q. Therefore, any superintendent of an asylum who uses the crib is 
guilty of barbarous and inhuman treatment of patients ? 
A. Certainly. 
Q. Is there any difference of opinion, among medical men, as to the 
advisability of using the crib; do yon know of any skillful physicians in 
this country who think the use of the crib advisable in certain cases ? 
A. They are either unskillful or not sincere. 
Q. I ask you if you know of any skilled physicians whom you know 
advocate the use of the crib in certain cases ? 
A. I know that all the skilled physicians whom I know are unani- 
mously against its use. 
Q. Who are they, or some of them ? 
A. The professor, my teacher in Vienna ; Professor Westphal, in Ber- 
lin ; Professor Gridden, in Munich ; Doctors Bucknill and Take ; those 
will suffice, I think: 
Q. Yon mention Bucknill; do yon consider Dr.Bucknill an eminent man ? 
A. He certainly is a most eminent man. 
Q. Yon consider his opinion of most decided value then ? 
A. Yes, sir, as regards the subject of insanity, not only from its medi- 
cal, but from its medical and legal stand-points. 
Q. Is he a high authority on pathology ? 
A. He has a good general knowledge of pathology ; I consider his opin- 
ion upon that subject as not so valuable as upon others; your question 
about pathology is very vague; I must take care of myself in this inves- 
tigation ; if I was caught slipping, an advantage would be taken of it 
in this committee. 
Q. Dr. Spitzka, you are a very smart fellow, but I don’t think you 
know as much as you imagine you do; please answer the question I ask 
about Dr. Bucknill. 44 
[Senate, 
A. As I said before, Dr. Bucknill has a good general knowledge of 
pathology; he is not a pathologist; I should prefer to have others’ 
opinions upon pathology to his. 
Q. Do you know anything about these other questions—referring to 
the Commissioner in Lunacy—the Senate has lately had a bill before 
them— 
Dr. Spitzka—Yes, and I regret very sincerely to see the way in which 
it was treated; I can only say that I concur in everything contained in 
Senator McCarthy’s speech ; I have seen Mrs. Norton’s throat; I have 
seen copies of letters written to her husband by the Commissioner in 
Lunacy, and if there ever was an exhibition of imbecility shown by a 
man occupying a responsible official position, that was one. 
Q. Dr. Spitzka, have you ever applied for a position at any of the asy- 
lums of this State ? 
A. Unless I know what disposition you intend to make of my answer, 
I will decline to answer. 
Q. We shall probably lay it before the Senate. 
Dr. Spitzka—Shall I be permitted to take my own time in answering 
the question ?. 
Senator Goodwin—Yes, if it doesn’t take too long. 
Dr. Spitzka—l was an applicant for a position in an asylum ; I applied 
for the position made vacant by the death of Dr. Parsons, at Blooming- 
dale ; I applied for that position upon, what I supposed, my merits ; 
that application was simply disregarded—not even answered ;if I hacl 
been possessed of the requisite political influence I could have got that 
position, even though I was the grossest and greatest medical ignoramus. 
Q. Doctor, who, in your judgment, are competent physicians in this 
country ? 
A. It would take me about as long to answer that question as anqther 
question which you have asked ; I am not a walking directory. 
Q. I only want a few. 
A. Well, Gross, of Philadelphia ; Yandell, of Ky.,—in fact there are a 
hundred in New York alone; I know something of the medical men of 
the country, I think. 
Q. Have you had any difficulty with any of the asylum superintend- 
ents of whom you speak ? 
A. I decline to answer that question, because it is petty scandal, and 
and out of place; such motives should not govern a man in seeking an 
investigation. 
Senator Goodwin—Doctor Spitzka, you wrote a letter to the chair- 
man of the committee which I desire to call your attention to. It comes 
under the date of May 10th. You say, in the letter: “ Dr. Hammond 
has informed me that one member of your committee, a Mr. Goodwin, 
stated that I had refused to come.” Did Dr. Hammond tell you that ? 
A. Yes, sir; he told me that; told me in the presence of Dr. Kiernan. 
Q. Did he say how I came to tell him this ? 
A. He told me in this way : the committee asked whether I was 
coming or not; Dr. Hammond stated that I was coming, but that there 
was a misunderstanding; he then told me that a Mr. Goodwin had made 
that statement about me. 
Senator Goodwin—l desire to state to the committee that I never said 
any such thing to Dr. Hammond. I was examining Dr. Hammond ; 
I had his own letter before me, in which he said that he desired to have 
Dr. Clymer, Dr. E. C. Seguin, and Dr, E. C. Spitzka requested to come No. 64.] 
45 
before the committee, and that they would come, and then I stated that 
I had received a letter from Dr. Seguin, in which he stated that he would 
not appear. 
We have here Dr. Seguin’s letter, in which he declines to come. 
Dr. Spitzka—l regret very much that I did not understand this before. 
Q. Do you know President Barnard, of Columbia College ? 
A. No, sir ; I do not know him ; I know of the trouble about his sig- 
nature ; we had a special meeting of the committee in reference to it; 
there was then a letter sent to your body from the committee, stating 
that we were each responsible for the names which we had obtained ; I 
think this letter went to Senator McCarthy; I am not certain about it; 
there were two names upon the petition, a Mr. Draper and Professor 
Barnard, which were stated, by a certain Senator Fish, to have been 
forged to it; Dr. Seguin is responsible for President Barnard’s signature. 
Senator Goodwin—We have a letter from President Barnard on the 
subject. 
Dr. Spitzka—ln regard to this petition, the physicians who signed it 
and sent it to the Senate had no idea, of course, that they would be sum- 
moned to Albany in connection with it; they supposed that they would be 
permitted to submit documentary evidence in support of the allegations ; 
this would not have taken so long a time ; our motive in the getting up this 
petition is purely a scientific one ; I do not think there is one man on the 
committee which drew up this paper, who is covetous of an asylum posi- 
tion ; that is the only personal motive which they might have ; not one is 
covetous of an asylum position; some of them stand too high in their 
profession; others, after many years of study, have acquired such a 
private practice as would render them independent of any position which 
an asylum might afford; their motives are of the purest and noblest 
kind ; not one of the signers of the petition has had any collision with 
superintendents; have not had the slightest difficulty with them; I now 
speak of the most responsible signers—men like Dr. Seguin and Dr. 
Mcßride—these have never had the slightest difficulty with any of these 
superintendents ; they hold themselves responsible for the signatures, as 
I have said; we hold, among other things, that a proper supervision of 
asylums is necessary, so that the asylums for the insane may not be so 
much in the nature of prison structures; that they should be thoroughly 
looked into—a duty which our noble Commissioner in Lunacy does not 
perform; there should be some way to wipe out barbarous restraint; 
medical superintendents should be eminent medical men, not merely 
wardens ; their positions now are more like those of a steward than any- 
thing else ; they go about their institutions, look at their fences, and 
perform labor of this kind rather than visit and prescribe for patients. 
There are a great many points like this, which could not be brought 
to your knowledge in one day, and there are a great many wit- 
nesses who can give you better information than ours, for we could not 
be expected to play the spy upon institutions, and could not give you 
the information which could be got from men who have been employed 
in the asylums. But these gentlemen, who have signed this petition— 
men who are eminent in the treatment of nervous and mental diseases— 
will not sign a petition like this on trivial grounds, and if they did not 
consider an investigation necessary. 
Senator Goodwin—l want to say one word in regard to this examina- 
tion. You want the Senate of this State to order an investigation into 46 
[Senate, 
the asylums of the State, when there is not the slightest ground for it. 
The mere fact that you come up here, a physician of five or six years’ 
experience, and state to this committee that in your judgment these 
superintendents are not qualified for the positions which they hold, 
does not demonstrate anything. It is nothing which the committee can 
act upon. Here are men who have been occupying positions of emi- 
nence in the profession, and have been occupying high official positions 
for years. The simple allegation that they are unfit for such positions 
does not prove anything. 
Dr. Spitzka—l decline to say anything further upon the matter. 
Dr. A. E. Macdonald offered to ask the witness a few questions, but 
the witness declined to answer any question put by superintendents. 
Dr. James G. Kiernan next made his statement: lam a practicing phy- 
sician; I live at 515 West Forty-ninth street, New York; I have been a 
physician since June, 1874; I got my diploma from the city, or University 
of the City of New York ; I studied only in the university; studied there 
for three years; I have been connected with the city asylum on Ward’s 
Island, under the superintendency of Dr. A. E. Macdonald, and for 
about a week under the superintendency of Dr. Theodore H. Kellogg, 
and Dr. R. L. Parsons; I was an apothecary at Ward’s Island the latter 
part of the time; I had a difficulty with Dr. A. E. Macdonald about 
the preliminaries of this very petition; there was a paper read before 
the Neurological Society in which Dr. Spitzka discussed some of these 
questions; 1 was asked to make some remarks, and could not avoid dis- 
cussing the question ; I was asked by Dr. Seguin; my remarks had no 
personal reference to Dr. Macdonald; they were simply upon the 
ignorance of certain superintendents in the matter of general paresis; 
if that superintendent were placed on the stand he would be compelled 
to make these statements himself; subsequent to that discussion I was 
examined before the board of trustees of the asylum in relation to being 
absent from the asylum; after this examination I was asked to resign ; 
I declined to resign, whereupon, after a week’s time, they dismissed me ; 
the only reason I was dismissed was because, as Dr. Macdonald himself 
said, I was dangerous to him; I can prove that; of the asylum superin- 
tendents of the State I have met Dr. John P. Gray and Dr. Nichols ; I do 
not consider Dr. Gray a competent man to treat insanity; Ido not con- 
sider Dr. Macdonald a competent superintendent; on one occasion, while 
going through the wards with him, he made a remark which settled my 
opinion of him; on one occasion, in the year 1875, while he was being 
examined before a coroner’s jury, he asked me what the symptoms of 
pneumonia of the lungs were; on another occasion he asked a gentle- 
man if the bursting of a blood vessel in the head was not the same as 
hardening of the brain ; my knowledge of Dr. Nichols is only from hear- 
say ; I have never met Dr. Chapin ; I know of him ; I regard him as a 
competent alienist; I went through the Poughkeepsie Asylum on one 
occasion ; have been through Bloomingdale, Ward’s Island, Sanford Hall 
and Blackwell’s Island; only made a short visit to Poughkeepsie ; I was 
told by an assistant there, I don’t remember his name, that he and the 
rest of the assistants were unable to perform their proper medical duties 
because they had to do so much writing up of cases, looking after 
patients’ clothing, in this lay duty and that lay duty ; I will not give 
names, because not one of these assistant physicians would have their 
positions one week from to-day if I did; never visited the asylum at 
Utica ; do not occupy any position in a medical college ; I have helped a No. 64.j 
47 
superintendent to write the only article on insanity which he has ever writ- 
ten ; besides this, an article of mine on insanity has been printed in the 
American Journal of Insanity, published at Utica by Dr, Gray; I have 
had one or two patients occasionally under my charge suffering from 
insanity; I had one until a month ago; I have had altogether about 
ten patients under my charge ; I was for a little while at the Flushing 
Asylum last fall; about two weeks ; I acted in the place of one of the 
assistants. 
Q. You have heard the evidence of Dr. Spitzka; do you agree sub- 
santially with him ? 
A. I do—yes; I must confess I agree with him in the majority of these 
things; the committee that drew up this petition did not originally 
include myself; I -was subsequently added ; I got some of the names—from 
J. Austin Leonard down to Dr. Daniel H. Smith; as near as I recollect, 
I presented the petition to each of the signers; to some of them I stated 
the facts ; I read and explained the main parts to J. Austin Leonard; 
stated the facts to Mr. Bierstadt; Mr. Little read the petition, and 
stated that it was a very good thing; he stated that he was delighted 
to be able to aid in any good work ; stated the facts of the petition to 
Mr. Sanders; I condensed the matter as much as possible ; stated the facts 
to Dr. Daniel 11. Smith ; handed him the petition, and stated the facts; 
condensed as much as possible the facts as they existed in my judgment; 
in reference to the use of the crib, they do not use it in the Poughkeep- 
sie State Asylum, as I was informed by one of the assistants ; Dr. Par- 
sons did not use it; they do not use it at Bloomingdale, and object to 
its use. In regard to the general capability of superintendents, there is 
now a superintendent who, it could be proved that, when he had charge 
of a former asylum, he turned some of its inmates loose upon the street; 
he dismissed them on all sides ; I know that; the assistant in that man’s 
employ told me that all he did was to look around the institution; direct 
that a brick must be laid this way and a brick that way; there was a 
fatal case at Ward’s Island, which happened from forcible restraint; it 
was in 1877; a case was brought in—a violent case; was placed in 
charge of an assistant; he was placed in restraint the first night he was 
violent; the second night he wTas removed from restraint; he was killed 
in a scuffle ; the superintendent swore that he was in restraint the whole 
time; in the same asylum there was a patient brought in who was 
known to have been violent; he was placed in seclusion, as he wms found 
to be excitable; he was taken to the kitchen, but, being too excitable, 
was taken to a quiet ward ; the next morning, after having been placed 
there, he killed his keeper; on one occasion, I was asked to give the 
death certificate of a patient who had died in this asylum; I refused to 
do this ; he also asked an assistant physician of his, who was not a grad- 
uate, to do this; he would not do so; that was on Ward’s Island. A 
question has been raised about the appointment of superintendents ; in 
the case of one superintendent, whom I know, the only reason he was 
appointed to an asylum was that he had the charge of Wm. M. Tweed, 
while he was in confinement, and, in consequence of this service, he was 
transferred to Ward’s Island, and became superintendent; this is all I 
wish to state here. 
Dr. Spitzka was asked—Do you know that the Bloomingdale Asylum 
is a private asylum ; that the Ward’s Island Asylum is under the Com- 
missioner of Charities and Corrections, and that they are not State in- 
stitutions ? 48 
[Senate, 
A. They are under State supervision—under the supervision of the 
State Commissioner in Lunacy and State Board of Charities. 
Q. So that, as I understand it, your complaints are made of these asy- 
lums ? 
A. On the scientific record against the Utica Asylum ; as to the finan- 
cial affairs at Utica, they are kept in such a hopeless mess that no one 
can make anything out of them ; one thing is certain, not one thing 
which has come from that asylum has been worth noticing. 
Ur. A. E. Macdonald—l should like to have the opportunity, before 
these witnesses leave, to prove that both have been guilty—one of 
falsehood and one of dishonesty. As regards my assistants being 
graduates of elementary schools, they have been graduates of the same 
university as these gentlemen, Ur. Kiernan complains of being dis- 
missed in consequence of having participated in the getting up of that 
paper, when the fact is, I never thought it worth while noticing. Ur. 
Hpitzka has named but one asylum in which he was an applicant for a 
position. He was also an applicant at my asylum ; I refused him a po- 
sition after inquiring into his antecedents and qualifications. As to Ur. 
Kiernan writing any article on insanity for me, he simply performed the 
clerical work, which was an apothecary’s duty—no more. 
Ur. A. E. Macdonald then made the following statement in regard to 
Mr. Browning and the employes in his establishment: 
“ I beg to submit a communication from Mr. W. C. Browning, head of 
the firm at 826 Broadway. Mr. Browming stated to me that he had not 
signed any such petition as was presented to the Senate, or any petition 
whatever; but that his name had been transferred to that from a simple 
statement which he gave in regard to the character of one of his em- 
ployes, ‘ saying that he had been seventeen years in his employ, and 
that his statement might be received as reliable.’ He stated also that 
the other names, secured at his store, were subscribed to the same state- 
ment, and not to the petition. I also submit two withdrawals, from Mr. 
James M. Uunbar and Mr. James Strothers. These gentlemen are 
members of the New York Club, and stated that they had never signed 
this petition ; but had attached their names to a very brief petition, the 
purport of which, as they understood, was to secure greater comforts for 
the insane in public institutions.” 
Adjourned. 
To the Hon. A. T. Goodwin, of the Senate of the State of Neio York: 
Utica, N. Y., March 25, 1879. 
My Dear Senator Goodwin—A long' personal acquaintance with you, and a knowl- 
edge of the reasonable ar.d philosophical manner in which you are accustomed to 
treat questions of political and social science, have encouraged me to address you 
some remarks which I feel impelled to make in regard to recent movements affect- 
ing a certain class of our State charitable institutions. Having officiated for the last 
fifteen years as Chaplain of the N. Y. S. L. A., all the wards of which I have, during 
that period, been accustomed to visit on week days, with greater or less frequency, 
in addition to my Sunday services, I ought, I suppose to be able at least to form an 
opinion on the administration of such institutions, and upon the various suggestions 
and unpatented plans for improvement that are continually cropping up in the news- 
papers. 
You doubtless have observed that this is an age of innumerable mechanical inven- 
tions, many very successful, and many though ingenious, yet practically useless, not 
from any defect of theory, but because they do not save enough in time or labor, or 
else cost too much in trouble and expense to supersede ordinary methods. As a 
reflecting man, you no doubt have seen that this truth holds good also in the moral, 
social or political sphere. Not every invention is an improvement. In these days No. 64.] 
49 
we are overrun with ethical, religious and social doctrinaires. Men who never had 
a family of their own can tell us how to bring up one. Self-styled “educators,” 
who never gave a lesson or had a pupil, can lay out a complete system of schools and 
instruction for the State, and even recommend domicilliary visits to enforce it. But 
perhaps there is no more favorite hunting ground for these penny-a-liners in search 
of sensations—these Quixotic knights in search of wrongs to set right—-these restless 
inventors and vendors of new “notions,” than the sphere of our public charities. 
In this department, indeed, there is full scope for philanthropy run mad. The gar- 
nish of a benevolent object seeking only to help the poor and unfortunate, will ac- 
credit the grossest ignorance and incompetency, and perhaps even disguise. Judas- 
like. the jealousies and animosities of disappointed vanity, which only wishes to 
“ make it hot ” for some detested enemy. For I fear it is not to be denied that be- 
sides this universal mania for “tinkering” in legislation, there are some instances 
that illustrate the case of Goldsmith’s dog, who— 
“ to servo some private ends 
Went mad and bit the man.” 
You have, of course, seen the “petition” purporting to emanate from certain 
“lawyers, physicians and other citizens of the State of New York,” claiming that 
“ there exists gross mismanagement in the medical administration of the insane 
asylums of this State,”* and asking for a committee of investigation, who shall be 
directed to obtain answers to along list of questions appended to the petition. 
Now, it seems to me that all this sort of thing has been gone over with wearying- 
repetition. If it were but a “ spasm of virtue,” as one of the newspapers calls it. 
it would be of less consequence, but it is worth while to inquire whether it may not 
be simplv one link in a long chain of repeated attempts, engineered by very much 
the same persons, or class of persons. 
If one reads the questions in this light, a personal animus is apparent upon the 
very face of some of them. What single one points to any new abuse not heard of 
before, and not expressly provided against by existing rules and regulations ? The 
petition refers to the “report” of Dr. Wilbur, head of the school for idiots at Syra- 
cuse, and not an expert in matters of insanity, that I ever heard, though an excellent 
man in his own department, who contrasts the management of the insane in Great 
Britain with that of this country, and disparages the “system” of asylum super- 
vision and management in this State and therefore in this country, for New York is 
certainly behind no other State in the Union. 
Now I 'have personally met such eminent authorities as Dr. Bucknill and Dr. 
Lockhart Robertson, both Lord Chancellors, Visitors in Lunacy, on their visits to 
the institutions of this country, and have inferred from their own expressions that 
they really regarded us as fully abreast with Europe in all that contributes to the 
perfection of this specialty. Is there any science, or literature, or mechanical or 
moral appliance open to them that is not equally open to us ? Have Americans, of 
all people in the world, shown less capacity and enterprise in testing and utilizing 
any improvement developed by skill or experience in either hemisphere, than our 
English brethren ? The assertion is absurd on the face of it. Surely those engaged 
in this specialty have every inducement of self-interest and reputation to make their 
system the best that the advance of modern medical science indicates. 
There are, to be sure, differences of opinion among specialists on the question of 
mechanical restraint. Some of our English brethren are entirely against it, while 
some favor it. 
The petition speaks of the “System.” If it is the “system” of our institutions 
these gentlemen wish to assail, why do they not say so? It is one thing to complain 
of the system which the State has adopted ; quite another to rest their action on 
charges of “abuse and mismanagement” against the administrators of the system. 
People may have their own opinions of the modern general system of treatment, 
and of the question whether confinement in hospitals or other sequestration is the 
best course, but these are questions that can be settled only by experience, and 
experience appears to be the only basis of the present “ system.” As to my own 
testimony, I can say that in all the years I have been connected with this institution 
I have never encountered any instance of this “abuse and mismanagement” either 
in the superintendent or his subordinates. Attendants, hired from among the long 
list of applicants with various recommendations as to experience, disposition, and 
moral character or habits, are, after all, but flesh and blood, and may not always 
fully meet the extraordinary demands for patience, courage and strength, combined 
* Printed in the New York Herald, March 15, 1879. 
[Senate Doc. No. 64.] 50 
[Senate, 
with the utmost sympathy and kindness, which the care of the insane imposes, and 
which, perhaps, are to he found only in the long- self-discipline of a Christian Sister- 
hood or Brotherhood. But the whole morale and atmosphere of this institution—its 
religious services—the high-toned example of its medical officers, nearly all of whom 
have had hospital experience before coming here, and the vigilant execution of the rules 
and regulations, all constitute an education, and a sort of military drill for all classes 
of subordinates. As to the facts of ward visitation, the character, qualifications and 
duties of the assistant physicians, these can be supplied by the authorities. But 
nothing can be a surer ear-mark of that petition as emanating from a class of non- 
experts who require to be taught Franklin’s maxim of “ minding one’s ovm business,” 
than the odd objection to the writing of “interminable, useless histories of cases.” 
Any one that has had the least acquaintance with hospital life knows that the note- 
book memoranda of cases are neither “ interminable ” nor “ useless.” 
In fine, not to weary you, it may be sufficient to remind you that the utmost pub- 
licity is now secured for the administration of all our charities, what with boards of 
managers, State Board of Charities, and Commissioner in Lunacy, besides the free 
access to the wards of crowds of daily visitors, making our poor patients feel as if 
they were never to be at rest, all for the sake of disabusing public prejudice. Is 
there to be no confidence anywhere? The bead of a family or the government that 
treats its subjects as necessarily thieves and liars will go far and fast to make them 
such. Put men of tried character in places of responsibility and then trust them. 
We ought to know by this time, in social life, in politics, and religion, that character, 
implying moral principle and a sensb of accountability, is everything—is the only 
basis of public confidence, and that without it all other safeguards are vain. Should 
not our boards of managers and the actual directors of our public institutions be as 
interested and anxious to know and correct all evils and abuses under their control, 
as any outside committee of uninterested and inexperienced gentlemen, legislative 
or otherwise ? 
As to the general run of the questions, I (hink it will be apparent that they would 
be sufficiently answered by sending to the propounders a copy of the rules and 
regulations of the various institutions, which are obviously unfamiliar to these 
petitioners. 
I have only to add, as regards my own opportunities of observation, that my week- 
day visits to the State Asylum average at least as often as once in each week, lasting 
during the greater part of the day, that they do not occur on the same day in each 
week ; that I have generally gone through the wards alone, unaccompanied by any 
medical officer or attendant, and that I have had the freest access to every part of 
the buildings. 
I have the honor toffie, my dear Senator, 
Your very faithful friend, 
\Y. T. GIBSON. 
Columbia College, New York, \ 
President’s Room, March 25, 1879. j 
Hon. Hamilton Fish, Jr. : 
Dear Sir—I have been informed that a memorial has been presented to the 
Legislature at the present session, arranging the management of the State lunatic 
asylums, and that my name appears attached to that memorial, as one of the signers. 
I have seen what purports to be a copy of the memorial referred to, and find it to 
contain charges of the gravest character against the Commissioner in Lunacy, and 
those in the immediate control of the institutions to which it relates. Permit me to 
say, and to request you to say for me to whomsoever it may concern, that I have no 
recollection of ever having seen this paper, or anything like it before, that I know 
nothing whatever about lunatic asylums, that Dr. Ordronaux, Commissioner in 
Lunacy, is a professor in the institution under my charge, and a gentlemen for 
whom I have every respect, upon whose official conduct in any capacity whatever, 
I could not, by my signature, sanction any imputation without the most convincing 
evidence ; such evidence as I do not possess and do not believe to exist, and finally 
that I cannot conceive the possiblity of my having ever signed a paper of this length, 
and embracing matters of this gravity without having examined it. May I ask you 
further in case you can have access to the paper referred to, that you will do me the 
favor, to strike my name from it forthwith and oblige, 
Yours very truly, 
F. A. P. BARNARD. No. 64.] 
51 
Columbia College, New York, 
President’s Room, May 10, 1879. 
Dear Sir—Having seen a statement made by Dr. Wm. J. Morton, before the Com- 
mittee on Public Health of which you are chairman, to the effect that Dr. Seguin of 
New York had in his possession (on tile, the statement reads), a note from me 
indorsing everything in the petition, now before the senate, praying for an investiga- 
tion into the management of the State lunatic asylums ; I have this day written to 
Dr. Seguin, asking him for a copy of the note so referred to. 
He replies affirming that he has such a note, and that it was sent to him in 
returning a copy of the petition which he had left with me to be signed, but fails to 
furnish me with the copy I had asked for. 
The only question of importance to the committee in this matter, is whether with 
the knowledge I now have of the contents of the petition, I am willing to be regarded 
as one of the petitioners, and as to this I desire it to be understood that I am not. 
If, in the excess of my confidence in Dr. Seguin, I signed a paper, the possible 
bearings of which I had not duly considered, but which he probably assured me 
was designed to promote a great public good, I doubtless did a very injurious thing, 
which this experience will prevent me from soon repeating. 
lean only repeat, however, what I have said on the subject before, that I have 
no recollection whatever of having had this matter brought to my attention before 
the presentation of the petition, by Dr. Seguin or any one else. 
I am very respectfully, 
Your obedient servant, 
Hon. A. T. Goodwin. F. A. P. BARNARD.