Telephone conversation with Dr. Lowell Greenbaum - June 6, 1966.
Dr. Greenbaum: They're going to try to re-commit that bill into that Committee if it comes on to the floor of the Senate. To do this Hill will have to call hearings on the Hill Bill and our bill, etc.
Dr. Dennis: You're not interested in the Javits Bill any more if the Hill Bill goes
through, are you?
Dr. Greenbaum: Well, yes we are, from one point of view that our information from what we can get in talking to the legislators down there is that the Hill Bill will be amended. There's not enough in it.
Dr. Dennis: There's not enough in it to avoid amendment?
Dr. Greenbaum: That's right.  So we hope, and this is what I'm going to try and tell the National Society is that a few sections of the Javits Bill would take care of that, we think. Anyway, this is our idea. They don't have training for personnel, etc. in there. Again you could say why not take the Roybal and Miller Bill, but they're not in the Committee. Javits is sitting in the Committee, you see,  so make friends with him. The Hill Bill apparently is very disappointing to many members of the legislature because the Bill contains no specific phrases as to some regulation, etc. in the laboratory like we had - postoperative care and preoperative care and things of that nature.  In other words, it has to have some appeal.  Now if we don't get it in Clark is going to get it in with his business.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, he'll get what you don't want in there.
Dr. Greenbaum: So this is the thing I'm going to try and convince - by the way, we spoke to Shannon and he agrees with that point of view.
Dr. Dennis: He'd go along with it?
Dr. Greenbaum: Oh yes.
Dr. Dennis: Why don't you get him to put it in?
Dr. Greenbaum: Well, maybe we will when hearings are called.  We had a 2-hour talk with Shannon directly.
Dr. Dennis: Who's we?
Dr. Greenbaum: Myself, Brian Hoffman and Paul Cranefield. That was in the memorandum. He said that he could see where you may need a second line defense and that he certainly could live with the parts of the Javits Bill in that sense. He was not too complimentary, by the way, to the National Society. He was a little upset with them.
Dr. Dennis: Why?
Dr. Greenbaum: I think he wanted them to write a bill - a complete bill.
Dr. Dennis: I see. Well I don't think the people in the National Society knew that.
Dr. Greenbaum: He wanted them to write a bill some time last January.
Dr. Dennis: Why didn't they put in that bill that they put together at the beginning
of 1964?
Dr. Greenbaum: This is the thing and when I was down at the hearings of the Committee on Commerce the thing that came out was that - I mean he mentioned the Hill Bill all over the place - Shannon, but Neuberger said well but you need - you know the bill doesn't have this in it, doesn't have that in it, and the more we listened the more we realized that the combination of the Hill-Javits Bill would be
the best thing for our side.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, that would be excellent.
Dr. Greenbaum: I'm afraid the National Society will resist this, in fact I'm pretty sure they will.
Dr. Dennis : Why?
Dr.  Greenbaum: I don't know, it's my feeling and we'll see tomorrow.
Dr. Dennis: I'd be very interested in knowing simply to bring this paper altogether up-to-date before it's presented.
Dr. Greenbaum: I plan to reading your report tonight on the plane and I'll make any adjustments that I need.
Dr. Dennis: You take a red pencil or something. Mark it where you like.
Dr. Greenbaum: This is what I hope that we - after all there will be six people on this Committee when hearings are held, and Javits will be heading up the minority group and I don't see any reason not to support ourselves by giving him a little boost by taking a couple of paragraphs out of his bill to prevent Clark from getting his stuff in there.
Dr. Dennis: Yes. When are the hearings?
Dr. Greenbaum: Not called yet at all. This is one of our problems, by the way. The Committee on Commerce doesn't believe hearings will be called in this committee, and that's why they're going ahead with this Secretary of Agriculture business.
Dr. Dennis: How do you stimulate them to get going?
Dr. Greenbaum: Hill.
Dr. Dennis: He'll do it?
Dr. Greenbaum: Well, we have to stimulate Hill to do it.  So we have tried through our connections with Javits and then Houston Merritt here. Now we don't know what Merritt did about it but he's supposed to be a good friend of Hill's, and we know that the committee men that we know from Javits -
Dr. Dennis: I used to have a real good lead to Hill but he died with a brain tumor.
Dr. Greenbaum: We were assured that Hill was on top of the situation from the Javits group, which is good, but I don't believe in personal diplomacy.  I've always said that and we may have to put a lot of pressure on Hill to call hearings.
Dr. Dennis: OK. Thank you very much. Goodbye.
The preceding is a conversation with Dr. Lowell Greenbaum on June 6, 1966, the earlier part of which indicated that it is his opinion that the situation is still a very precarious one, that the Committee on Commerce is going right ahead with trying to push through the Magnuson-Monroney Bill and amendments, and also indicating that Dr. Greenbaum is meeting with the Board of the NSMR tonight in Chicago.