Yeah,

mm 

mm mm.

Okay,

mm.

Mhm.

Too fast then.

Too fast.

Too fast.

Hold it now,

let it up very slowly slower.

Okay,

now hold it for a second now,

let it out very slowly,

look it up some more.

You look good 

Poland.

Let it out very slow.

When you start getting that sensation that you can't 

catch your breath where you get the number 

missing female or your heart beating very 

fast.

Any one of those things try to 

be a way to show you can make 

a world.

Yeah.

The stresses on the elderly in our society are 

enormous.

Think of it.

Physical illness,

loneliness,

economic deprivation,

isolation from loved ones.

A lot of memories which continually 

crop up,

lack of an active life,

daily basis,

irritability,

problems with neighbors,

problems with changing neighborhoods,

less mobility and a host of other 

problems.

Many people are quite capable of coping with this 

particularly if throughout their lives they 

functioned have had somewhat of an 

independent self reliant approach to living,

where the individual has not had this uhh 

older age can be a particularly 

burdensome time for the 

psychiatrist.

The problem is several fold.

It's assessing the nature of the patient's life 

circumstances,

trying to determine what objectively is in fact 

stressful,

what in fact is 

secondary to uh psychiatric illness 

and the distortions of life experiences which 

occur when someone is depressed or beginning to 

suffer the ravages of physical 

uh organic brain disease.

One thing we do from time to time,

where it's indicated where the patient requests it is to visit 

the patient in the home setting.

Because in this setting one gets a totally different picture of the 

patient.

One gets a sense of what some of their 

props are,

what some of the pressures there are 

that they daily encounter,

what kinds of resources they have,

how friendly their neighbors are,

What kind of concern is shown by the doorman or the 

elevator man.

These are uh resources and 

part of the world of many elderly people 

that one doesn't ordinarily encounter in the office 

situation.

The woman that we're looking at now is 

74 years old and until 

several months ago was working on a part 

time basis as a legal secretary.

She's a very active,

very energetic,

very positive woman who for the 

second time in a period of five years has suffered an 

acute depressive illness brought on by no 

particular circumstances,

perhaps physical illness.

Perhaps some of the pressures that she describes 

in these tapes.

It's very hard to say.

It's hard to say because many of these things 

existed while she was working before she 

ever began began to get depressed.

So you're faced with making some kind of 

decision as to what's external,

what's being produced by the environment that she's 

in.

What are real factors and what our 

psychological ones but irrespective 

of the decision that you make or the judgment 

that you come to.

The critical factor is.

That's such a patient can indeed be treated 

treated with antidepressants treated with 

reassurance,

support and encouragement.

My headaches might come.

I haven't had those kinds of headaches for maybe 25 

years.

You know what I mean?

Well whatever it was maybe two or 3 

days nauseous with they might call it 

migraine.

I don't know but I haven't had those years 

and years 

molly is migraine in the back of the head.

You do know it's not.

No.

Where would my name be?

Well then I didn't have migrated.

Might be tension.

Yeah.

I'll tell you something though Doctor I 

had been doing a lot of white work home.

My had a plaster,

my bathroom from a leaf.

the walls were cracking so the plaster came and there was a lot 

of work attached to that cleaning.

And then I clean the windows maybe 

and oh I did a lot of walking and I think 

that must I think those things had a 

great bearing.

So I don't remember a lot of things I want to tell you.

I think that the over 

work in physical labor so to 

speak.

I feel that I'm walking too much walking 

especially when I a lot of aggravation with 

the pastor.

No I had a very nice man do it.

It was no aggravation.

It was just work you know they 

leave as much as that clean work attached to 

it.

And also 

it's hard for me too tall.

I can't take any kind of noises.

I can't take any.

Oh dear God doctor I can't 

go into this again.

Barry said to me if you need to see you made a change 

and he's going out on jobs then with a fellow 

uh kids.

You know,

he's got his own troubles.

He works very hard,

you know,

going to different places to order and so forth.

Now.

He says,

if you meet a girl he's just for the agency and he said 

I'll call,

I can't take them.

I mean that's terrible Doctor.

They're terrible.

They don't even know how to cook and 

not that I'm hungry,

but give me a little something appetizing like 

this girl who did but no contact.

She must have moved or something.

There's no phones or anything.

Try to get yesterday.

It's interesting that the elderly 

have great difficulty with 

housekeepers,

maid servants and other people 

hired to help them or 

volunteer to help them because of their own 

particular way of doing things.

It's almost like trying to keep a 

grasp on a reality gone 

by trying to keep things going their 

own way and unwillingness to 

accept their helplessness under certain 

circumstances.

And this is a very tricky kind of thing to deal with because 

at times one wants to encourage self 

reliance at the same time in many 

instances,

because of physical conditions,

because of uh the retardation of 

energy that occurs among the elderly,

particularly those who are depressed.

Uh they really can't get their house work done 

and are oftentimes fortunate enough to have 

help,

but they frequently fight with the help and really 

can't keep them.

So you think it's all right and from alone?

Yeah,

I think you're better.

I think you will get there.

I mean,

I don't have any depth and you feel that 

I'll get better.

The drug I know like this today,

but I think the drugs the afternoon I feel that I 

want to sleep and I said I have a chance for about an hour 

and a half.

But when I take the drug it makes me feel as if I want to 

sleep and that's not energizing 

isn't.

No but the overall effect will be 

maybe I need the rest.

I don't know whatever I never want to do is doctor.

I think you work yourself up.

I think that the fact that you work 

yourself up is almost like worse than the depression itself.

Work by something getting upset that you are depressed,

I get highly excited and that doesn't 

do me any good.

I imagine that would raise my pressure 

But the last time the doctor took my pressure he said it 

was Alright.

Was 170 180.

Over 90.

Of course it could be better over the 90 part.

I really didn't feel depressed except that I 

felt sick with the headache,

you know.

Mhm.

You're taking my pills.

Yeah,

I wasn't taking any pills.

What do you think?

Well It's now I 

think April 13 I started with the pill.

You mean the in our deal?

You know,

that's the only one I'm taking thinking about three weeks for the 

build up.

And I started with one and 2 two a 

day.

Then he told me to take three when I was here last monday.

So I took it for about two or 3 days and I felt 

terrible.

Then I cut it down to two a day 

and yesterday my friend Lillian,

she didn't call me.

She she didn't know just what to think 

because last sunday I felt so much better.

We can go sunday.

And then she called me yesterday and she says to me,

she felt terrible that she didn't know.

She said she could have come down.

She says also take the pill.

That's what the doctor said.

He helped you.

Uh huh.

Now I took the third pill yesterday 

and today I only took one so far.

I take it after I have breakfast.

I forced something into me some toast and 

coffee.

Now it's all right for me to have a talk in the morning.

Mhm.

And so it makes me a little alive.

I can't even know what I mean.

What do you think this is?

I get tingling like a pen 

needles sensations in one hand and you start over 

breathing.

I can't breathe well at all.

Do you breathe not good?

Let me see I your path.

I don't pant.

I tried to catch my breath.

I can't catch my breath.

Show me how you breathe.

I caught my breath.

You know to catch.

What do you do?

Let's see you breathe breathe.

Let me see 

I'm breathing now.

What do you do more than trying to catch your breath the same 

thing and sometimes it comes.

I know this drug has a 

tendency to make me 

try to get my breath.

What is that?

You find yourself breathing rapidly?

No,

sometimes I feel my heart beating 

rapidly.

Is that when you're getting the pins and needles?

I haven't even now like pins and needles.

Now.

The doctor tested my heart last week 

carefully.

He said to me,

it's all right.

Even my head fights me now.

This will not be gotten sweats.

Mhm.

The drug has a tendency to make me 

I mean they make my breathing 

hard to get.

You're missing a beat or missing.

No,

you can't catch.

You can't catch.

But as a result of that.

Not like this.

Whoa I don't spend 

I just.

Similar beings do it repeatedly.

Well I'm breathing.

Alright.

Talking.

Would you breathe the way you breathe when you're having that 

difficulty?

Yeah.

How do you breathe normally?

Mhm.

Mhm.

Not to my mom.

Mhm.

Hard to see it.

It seems to me that when the way your 

breathing is producing some of the symptoms 

and the way to control some of the symptoms is to take a deep 

breath,

hold on and they let them out 

very slowly.

Yeah,

I can explain that to you.

Can you understand what I'm saying?

How can I do that?

Mhm.

Mean green green like this.

Too fast.

Hm.

Too fast.

Too fast.

Hold it now.

Let it up very slowly slower.

Okay Now 

hold it for six now let it out very slowly.

Look it up some more.

Take a deep breath 

Poland for its own sake and let it out 

very slow.

When you start getting that sensation that you can catch 

your breath where you get the number missing 

chemo or your heart beating very fast.

Any one of those things try to 

wear to show if I make a 

world.

Yeah.

What is it what is that 

significant of?

Because when you feel anxious and you start 

breathing the way you were breathing,

you don't blow off enough carbon dioxide 

and it leads to changes in the 

carbon dioxide oxygen balance and 

stops the respiratory center for a second,

which gives you the sensation that you can't catch your breath.

Which leads to a much more rapid 

breathing and numbness and tingling 

dizziness.

I don't get this palpitations 

I when I'm in bed mostly.

Usher of the palpitations in the homes of times 

and I get the feeling in 

my hands like you know the 

vibration,

so to speak.

I feel that my hands at times I haven't now on my 

left my patients seemed 

alright.

Has to do with your breathing.

It's angry,

anxious bringing you.

Mean that's anxiety wouldn't have been 

induced a little a lot by being drunk.

I doubt that's what I feel when I take the 

drug mostly that induces that will 

launch the 

doctor.

Is that why do I feel 

why does it take?

I know when I was to my eye doctor two weeks 

ago he looked up model,

what do you call it?

said something no big 

thing there,

he was reading it and he said to me it makes 

you sort of uh well 

it takes all effort.

Are you know,

makes you sort of list this limp.

Isn't that?

So what does that's what the 

explanation was in there and that makes me 

feel No life,

no life now.

Why?

Nice depression?

No life is depression.

Well why did the definition of that say that 

it may have been one side effects or sometimes you get a 

paradoxical effect.

You don't get what you're hoping to get.

The purpose of the medicine is to energize you not too far 

from.

It.

Never does.

Then the last time you talked you out of it,

you want to get you out of the depression?

Yeah,

but it certainly didn't energize me.

I was 

I'm terrible now too.

But the fact that I could even come here today was something,

you know what I mean?

At times I feel like we go down and just 

I with 

no functional,

you know,

so to speak.

It doesn't energize me not.

The yellow will energize me what you 

can't take the over glaucoma.

It's common for patients to complain about side effects.

Most medicines that have any potency produced some 

side effects.

Very important point should be 

emphasised and underlying is the fact that 

tricyclic antidepressants are contraindicated in 

patients suffering from glaucoma and in 

every elderly patient where antidepressant medication is to be 

considered,

they should be asked about glaucoma 

whether it runs in the family,

whether they've ever been told they had it and in fact 

when possible a test should be made,

patient should be referred for tests glaucoma 

so as to determine what kind of antidepressant to 

put the patient on where glaucoma is 

present.

M.

A.

O.

Inhibitors are required.

Tress I clicks are contraindicated.

I started taking and I took it twice 

then I took it again.

They twice.

They begin today twice and I 

feel like I was helping.

Mhm.

I guess we need to stay alive.

It's hard for me.

Sometimes function.

It just came out of the blue or.

Mhm.

Yeah.

I felt myself getting excited.

I don't know when you come from.

Mhm.

Yeah.

See maybe I overdo 

sick.

I would do walking.

I would do work housework 

that might have to take to 

get tired.

Very tired you see I used to 

suffer with terrific pains in the back of my 

head.

Years years ago fell 

away as I was taking my science very seriously.

The most things fall away.

You live it.

I haven't been studying my science 

almost a year now that somebody in the rest of the 

last driving feeling 

thursday.

Mhm.

And this girl comes over 

place stomach that I 

worked with years ago.

This telling me about certain incidents that have 

and I couldn't take it gang getting 

excited.

Yeah it's the doctor.

Why should I get confused when you get excited?

I don't well not 

no I wouldn't say confused when 

I'm disturbed.

I refused.

After excitement I would become disturbed.

You see it disturbs me 

and 

I'm not able to 

talk as rationally as I could.

You know?

And of course I have sense of 

well why don't have fun.

Two because of loneliness.

People frequently develop telephone 

relationships with old friends or people they 

meet.

This is to be encouraged.

On the other hand,

one word of caution 

I think should be indicated.

And that is that if the individual is 

continually listening to other people's problems and 

trying to solve them and becoming becomes 

burdened by them,

uh they may add to their own problem.

And in fact this kind of 

quasi therapeutic or psychotherapeutic 

relationship should be discouraged.

Or at least monitored in the amount of time that goes 

into it should be reduced considerably.

And I feel over that now 

because I know it's not good,

doesn't do anyone any good is poisoned 

and I got him out of my system,

not reversed feeling.

I feel like what happened that 

what happened then?

Well,

it's not anything recent.

The little niece of my down to florida and I was very good 

to sunday for years.

Yeah,

that's my sister,

a mother who passed down.

She was very afraid with sister and mother.

The last few years she passed 

on.

Mhm.

I don't know things that words are right.

It's the Beverly capital that I had given.

My mother died.

I gave it to my sister was a beautiful county.

All of my sister giving it to her 

and she wouldn't give it up.

She said she,

she kept it as a memento of my mother.

The truth.

Really predictable tonight.

Focus.

She wants to keep it for sentimental reasons.

Give me $250.

That's happened recently.

No,

it's happened the last couple of years but 

Revised when I ran 11 to somebody in 

Florida,

then I get excited.

But it's not just,

it's not one little incident I got out of my system.

It's a combination of things.

You see the worst thing with anybody that is 

resentment,

which is a form of hatred and hatred 

is the worst thing 

one of the first world is to love 

no matter what,

you know,

even though jesus 

being now to the cross that forgive them for they 

know not what they do and his whole 

the whole this home love 

what we call it creatures.

Well with love and of course christians son 

I was doing my lesson study 

might be,

I'll be,

you didn't know why weren't you doing it?

I wasn't somehow or other all the years 

that I've had never let go of it clunked with um in 

the hospital for one half years ago.

That's all I did the study with it.

And even then you profess At maybe 

50 power,

you told that today.

And of course it's wonderful.

It's really wonderful that somehow this last time when I got so 

sick I just couldn't take it 

anymore.

I don't know why myself now 

coming back.

I'm going to demolish the dollars and 

change and it's every day 

and it's portion of it is right every day.

The homeless the thread each day.

Each day.

The same lesson.

How many,

how many pages?

Well it's not a page section,

sections from the bible and then science and health 

which interprets 

the bible and it's a 

beautiful,

beautiful,

it's a beautiful uh huh 

study and should keep down being you see I haven't been doing 

my lessons for about a year.

I go to services and all that.

I didn't seem to be there.

I can't explain the doctor but I feel not 

coming back very much to see my practitioners.

I say yesterday but you a lot of anger 

to get hold of you though 

I allowed it.

Yes.

Before you study christian science,

you don't have any guns,

description science sort of think that 

anger.

Thank you.

No,

but it may go into depression.

Anger anger will turn into 

depression.

Well let me say as a result of 

values but we mrs Ellis says it's 

poison to me and it's also to the 

personal I feel that way towards it's not helping the person 

if you respond personally,

whether you know whether they know it or not,

that's right.

Absolutely.

When you think well of 

the next person,

the one who who causes you 

grief and so forth,

and so forth,

it helps you and 

also help the party because you see 

we have to respond to love,

understand when I think well of a personal matter what 

they do,

you've got a system as God's prophet child 

and God's perfect child.

It's the image and likeness of God,

perfect.

And and it's not a real man that's 

expressing anger or hatred.

It's like you would say the devil,

there is no devil.

Of course the devil is ever,

it's error.

It stands for evil,

so to speak or the wrong thing.

Power is wrong setting.

And as you expressed a new book there and I gave a parallel,

remember your fourth term 

billions?

It was on a parallel with what you brought out,

but it's a wonderful,

wonderful study.

I'm coming right back into it.

I'm going to go right into the study again.

It's the only thing about hell,

keep yourself,

You know what I mean?

Mhm.

Think beyond the people alive.

This help.

We're going to go through when you suffer the 

results of your city.

It's all thinking.

It's all mental and wrong.

Thinking manifests itself on the body in 

any form,

whatever.

Mhm.

That's what it's stopped now I guess.

Well,

that's I imagine 

contributory cause it's a great 

contribution towards it.

Yes,

a lot of people could resisted.

Well,

everybody has it in a different form.

Would be it manifests itself in this way.

Other people might get some kind of physical 

disturbance,

you know what I mean?

It manifests itself.

Was thinking about,

it manifests itself physically in some form of 

so of course I have to tell.

Okay.

And the worst thing in the world is fierce 

worse than anger.

Well,

that's two different things.

Child do different things.

One is just as bad as the other one.

The anger runs around the field because of what 

what manifests itself then becomes 

beautiful.

The good impression,

it's quite clear from listening to this 

woman that her religion has 

played a very important part in her life.

But that the advent of depression has 

really reduced her capacity to participate 

to is almost kind of eroded her 

faith.

But four years ago,

when she suffered from depression 

once before,

uh she really stopped attending 

church and uh stopped 

meeting with the minister.

Uh but about halfway through her 

progress halfway through her recovery period,

when she was beginning to feel a lot better.

Uh This began to play a very important part in her life 

and this when it's available,

when it's possible when it's part of the patient's past experience 

should definitely be encouraged because 

this kind of support can be very helpful to a 

patient.

Let's say I have nothing to love it,

but I don't have this.

But but you still have 

some I mean,

you're still so much better than you were.

I mean,

yeah,

you mean better now since I 

realized what's happened well,

but maybe realizing it also like you 

were in the past,

I'm not depressed the way you were.

Its beginnings of it.

That's it.

I'm feeling a lot better.

There are a lot of people watching this program who might 

consider this woman to be a typical,

She's 74 and has worked until recently.

She's not well to do.

And yet She had a housekeeper at one time.

Uh she's very energetic,

as you can see in the later interviews 

she's recovered from this illness.

Yeah,

I think the significant thing about her,

though is that uh she 

represents what's possible for people who are 

older,

that the elderly need not be cast aside,

that they need not be sent to old age 

homes,

that their capabilities,

their feelings,

their sensitivities,

their awareness of things.

There need to be a part of things is just as 

great as it is for anybody else than any other age 

group,

Perhaps more so more so because in our 

society,

with its emphasis on youth,

there's a relative neglect 

of the elderly and what they can 

contribute.

It's amazing to talk to older people and 

discover that that they have some of the 

same aspirations and hopes and attitudes 

and sense of humor that people 

in other age groups have.

The only thing that's different is one 

they're more likely to suffer from more physical illnesses 

with increasing age and to 

they are more likely to be neglected because people 

think of them as elderly.

But we haven't shown this on the videotape,

but this old lady is quite an old 

gal and in terms of some of the 

rye ball stories she can relate in 

terms of some of the experiences that she's 

had in terms of her very 

uh broad perspective on life 

experiences and uh my nurse 

and social workers and others working with 

us in our clinic and in my own private 

practice generally tend to say that they're very 

amazed uh that the 

patients that are most preferred and we have a lot 

of interesting people coming in all the time,

the older people somehow or other there free of a lot of 

the irritability and anxiety 

and drive,

kind of neurotic drive that so many other 

people seem to have and they don't have a kind of 

pomposity or ego about them,

which uh makes every 

therapeutic encounter a struggle,

a power struggle of sorts.

Uh Next time you see some older people,

particularly those suffering from some kind of 

stressful life experiences,

remember this uh and look 

for the strengths that they do have because 

they have them just as everyone has them and they 

have them even more so because they've lived a lot longer,

and I've seen a lot more and it's only a question of 

acknowledging the presence of such strength 

that helps the patient To begin to 

bring these strengths to the four and to 

implement them in their daily lives.

Mhm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mhm.

Mhm.

Mhm.

Yeah.

Mhm.

Yeah.